How many real estate investment deals do you do? How much profit do you make on each deal? Number or profit, which should you focus on? Cut through the clutter to find more profitable real estate investments. Today, Clint Coons of Anderson Business Advisors talks to Max Keller from Customers Chasing You. Max has more than 15 years of experience in real estate, finance, and teaching. Also, he has flipped more than 100 houses. Max shares five ways marketing attracts motivated sellers.
- What makes Max an expert? Information he provides generates results
- What sparked Max’s interest in real estate investing? Avoid pain by flipping houses
- Why does Max choose to work with seniors? Raised right by grandmother; loyal niche needs help with deferred maintenance
- What are Max’s five ways marketing makes more money on your average deal?
- Direct Mail: Stack quality multiple lists and pieces with good data to track results
- Transitional Call to Action: Address pain points via benefits statement
- Customer Service vs. Sales: Understand customer’s buying cycle
- Develop Niche: Teach expertise to create better value proposition for customers
- Superpower Principles: Become author for authority, expert, and celebrity status
- How can investors differentiate themselves and cultivate customers? Answer the phone, make them a priority, and build a lead funnel
- What’s the fastest way to increase results in your marketing? Change customer’s perception of you in their mind
Full Episode Transcript
Clint: Welcome, everyone. Hi, it’s Clint Coons here with Anderson Business Advisors, and this is another edition of our weekly podcast. This week we are going to be talking about marketing.... Read Full Transcript
Let’s face it, when it comes to real estate investing, it is difficult for a lot of people to cut through the clutter out there and find more deals. You probably had been to a seminar, a RIA meeting, and there’s a speaker, they’re talking about how they have this system where you send out letters. And then you go to another event, there’s another guy sitting there telling you how you can send out letters. One person uses blue paper, the other one uses yellow paper, but everyone’s doing it. Just think if you’re the homeowner, that’s a distressed seller, and you’re getting inundated with the same information over and over again, what’s going to happen? I know what I would do, I would tune it out. You need something that’s going to stand out. Cut through what everyone else is doing, and approach it to get their attention.
What I thought I would do with this podcast is bring on an expert in this field, someone who is doing it, has done it, has helped people break through this clutter, that’s developed some steps to educate you on as to how to separate yourself, how to put these deals back into your pocket so that you can find success out there with your real estate investing.
The individual that I have with me today is Max Keller from Customers Chasing You. His podcast, YouTube channel is phenomenal. There’s so many little nuggets in there that you can go and listen to and find out what you should be doing. If you’re not already doing it right now, check that out. Google Customers Chasing You, you’ll find them, but he’s going to share with you today the five steps that everyone should be looking at or considering when it comes to marketing. If you’re a real estate agent, real estate investor, small business owner, you want to listen in. Max, how are you doing?
Max: Hey, real good. Thanks for having me on the show. Hey, everybody, sit down. Take some notes. We’re going to be dropping some knowledge bombs today, and I hope it can help you. You can put it into action immediately in your business, and so I’m excited and feeling blessed to be on the show.
Clint: This isn’t easy. I’m going to come here, we’re going to grill you. I want to know what makes you an expert versus all these other guys that you see out on the circuit that have been teaching people how to win best in real estate and how to market actually, dropping letters, and doing skip tracing and all this stuff. Why should I listen to you today?
Max: You’ll decide it’s totally your choice. Expert is a title that’s given by other people not the actual person. Number one, I’ve done this and gotten results, so that’s a big difference, and I’m still getting results with the information that I’m going to share with you guys today. The other thing is creativity. A lot of folks, they’re out there talking about the same things over and over, but a lot of things we’re going to talk about today, you probably haven’t heard anywhere else, so stay tuned.
Clint: How did you get started in it? Did you wake up one day and decide I’ve got a better mousetrap, I’m going to teach people how to do it a different way.
Max: I started just by being miserable. That’s a good way, pain. Avoid pain, it’s pretty simple. I started flipping houses about four years ago. I flipped about 120 houses over this time period. I got to about deal 60 and I was really miserable. I was making good money. I was a teacher before I got into real estate, so I like to teach and help others, it’s just in my DNA. I felt like I was not doing that by buying people’s homes, it was very transactional.
I was just miserable. I was making good money, but I was sending out direct mail, people were pretty much just looking at me as one of the junk mail people. I knew how to do other things that I could contribute to the conversation, but it was just really hard to separate, breakout from the noise.
This is an exercise I did, and I encourage everybody who’s listening to try it out. I made a list of all the deals that I had done up to that point and I listed two things. I listed what my net profit was per deal, which is a topic people won’t mention enough. We’re talking about profit, not deals, net profit. If I enjoyed actually doing that transaction with that customer, because I guess I’m spoiled, like I want the best of both worlds. I want to be able to make a lot of money, have a good business, but then I also want to enjoy myself when I’m doing it all day.
Long story short, as I made that list, and everything pointed towards working with seniors, they were slow to build trust, but when they did, they’re very loyal, it’s an incredible niche. Most of them had deferred maintenance on their house. They needed a lot of help. My grandma raised me, and then I took care of my grandma. I’ve always had just a love for seniors.
I listen to Dan Kennedy a lot, he talks a lot about the riches in the niches and so I said, I want to really dive in, and one of the things we’re going to talk about today is niche. That’s part of the story, and then I started using some things that other people in my market were using creatively to get deals which we’re going to talk about, we’ll list them off. I started getting results that just were unbelievable, you’d have to experience it for yourself.
Basically, that’s how I got the idea for my Youtube channel Customers Chasing You for the first time, instead of just being a dime a dozen and being another person in the junk mail. I had people calling to ask if they could work with me if they qualified, and it was all just pivoting and just a totally different process. That’s what we’re going to break down today in five easy steps.
Clint: You brought up something that I think is important that sometimes people don’t necessarily appreciate, and that was the number of deals that you were talking about. I hear people all the time say, well, I’ve done 65 deals. Great, but if you made $500 on each deal, you’re not someone I want to follow.
No one ever asked that follow up question, how much do you make on your average deal, because that’s what we should be focusing on. It’s not how many deals we do, it’s how profitable those deals are, and to get those more profitable ones, you have to find the better deals, and that’s where people listen in and they’re going to figure out how to do that. You got five steps. What is number one?
Clint: The first one is if people are spending money on direct mail, direct mail still works, there’s people leaving direct mail which is always a good time to go back into it. We have three approaches. Sending to one list is not working, you have to stack your direct mail. You definitely need to attack the lists that you create. Stacking is taking multiple lists, putting them together, you have a greater chance, high impact list, better percentages. Instead of sending a customer one piece of mail or a seven touch campaign, how are you reaching them in multiple ways, so that’s the attack.
There are basically three steps to direct mail. It has nothing to do with magenta versus turquoise, A/B split testing, or this benefit statement. It has to do with the quality of your list, stacking your list, investing in good data to begin with. That’s how you start a good direct mail campaign.
Number two is you’re not just sending them one piece of mail, not just sending them seven, not just sending them a variety of mail, but are you capturing their email address, and then following them around with a retargeting ad on Facebook? Are you also doing text message legal in the right way in your state at the same time, and are you putting those all together in the same month to create real omnipresence?
When you start doing that, it takes a little more coordination. It takes a little more planning but you get more results. The last step that I missed for a while and then when I didn’t, it started making a huge difference, is the tracking. If you’re spending money on direct mail right now, are you really tracking it? For most entrepreneurs, visionaries, solopreneurs, deal finders, they like to hunt. They like to go out, chase the thrill of the deal, not go back and see, okay, I’ve got four different campaigns, which one had the best return on marketing investment?
The first step to really blowing up your results is doing those three things, stacking your list, getting better coordinated data, attacking it from multiple approaches, and then tracking every dollar that goes out in your business. When I started doing that, I doubled and tripled my results, my net profit per deal by doing that, but it’s not fun, but that’s step number one.
Clint: What’s stacking?
Max: Stacking is when you take multiple list sources, and you stack them on top of each other. What you do is you identify multiple factors that might make somebody your customer. In our business, physical distress of the property or financial distress of the homeowner.
If somebody is on a code enforcement list, that’s an indicator of physical stress, but if somebody is on a code enforcement list, and they’re on a pre-foreclosure list, now we have two points of distress. If our job is to serve people who are in distress and help them, then that person who’s on two of the lists instead of just one is a better potential customer. We’re going to invest more time and energy to communicate with them. Does that make sense?
Clint: Yeah, it does. They have more pain points that you can push on, or to help them out of that situation. When you’re marketing to them, if you’re writing your piece, I heard you say that doesn’t matter the color, but how about the context of it? Are you changing that up? Imagine, that’d be really difficult if you’ve got 80 pieces you’re dropping and some of them have three factors. One has two factors, one just has one pain point. How do you systematize that though, you make each one unique?
Max: Are you cheating? Are you looking at the list? That’s number two. I love it when you set me up like that, Clint. This is great. This is pro stuff you’re getting here, folks. Clint, I love your show. Thank you for having me on. The second one is transitional Call to Action. The benefits statement, whether it’s 1 pain point or 10, they’re all the same thing. They’re going to want to do something with the property, so your benefit statement, whether it’s by your house or it’s listing or remodeling it first, whatever that is, doesn’t really change.
Most real estate investors have a fairly clear call to action, call this number to see if we can help you, these are the benefits to working with us. That’s all good, but number two is what folks are missing and it’s a huge moneymaker. I missed it for probably two and a half years so I lost a lot of money not doing this. I don’t want that to happen to you. It’s called the transitional call to action.
A transitional Call to Action is where you make it very easy for the customer who’s not ready to sell their property right now, who’s not ready to take advantage of your call now to see if your house qualifies. It’s a second call to action that is an easier way for them to engage with you. What we do because we write educational books around real estate and we share them with our audience, we create a lot of curiosity. When we send out direct mail, or flyers, or when our members across the United States do that, they have a benefit statement on their direct mail, which says, hey, we can help you with your home, we can do this and that, give us a call.
The secondary is if you’re not ready to do anything right now, call our office, we wrote one of our books on senior housing, you can go online and buy it, or you can call our office and we’ll send you a copy for free. What that does, Clint, who doesn’t want a free book, right? That sounds pretty cool, from the author, signed, autographed. What happened was you’re getting half a percent response rate on our direct mail, which was still profitable. We’re putting out $4000 or $5,000 worth of direct mail to get a $33,000 net profit flip deal on a 6-month conversion cycle. It’s still a profitable business decision, but it’s like most of the people that we are reaching didn’t have a need right now, but they are going to have one in the future. What can we do to stay in the conversation?
When we write the book on senior housing, we start offering it to them. We send them a copy of the book. Now we have their mailing address, now we know that they’re raising their hand, and we have a follow up conversation with them in a couple of weeks. Not to say, hey, when are you going to hurry up and sell your house so I can make some money? Instead, we say, hey, what do you think of the book, we want to get your feedback.
It’s a much easier conversation, and they’re really like bandit signs in people’s living rooms. I used to put bandit signs out, our team did on the street and the curbs and people hate those. But now because we have something that we can share with people, we have bandit signs in their living rooms. That’s our books that they never throw away.
I’ve got your book, Clint, I bought it a couple years ago, I haven’t thrown it away, and anytime that I have a need over there, I go and look at my library and you’re there. You’re spying on me in my office. That’s how books work, but that’s the power of a transitional CTA, call to action, it doesn’t have to be a book. It can be sending them to an educational video. It can be sending them to the website to learn more, but this is where creativity has to come in, and this is what the people at the RIA clubs are not teaching, and we’ve got three more to go.
Clint: One thing that you get from writing a book and sending the book, you’ve elevated yourself beyond your competition. Now, you’re the expert. Two, you’ve changed the conversation now from someone who was just trying to take from them, profit from them, to someone who’s trying to help them. I imagine that, you stated that conversation is different. I could see how that would apply because now their guards will go down, and they’re going to be more open, probably having that conversation.
Max: 100%. I don’t know what words we’re allowed to say on the show, but predatory scum sucker is one that I hear thrown a little bit when it describes investors. Some people have a great reputation, some don’t. There’s some people who ruin it for everybody. What’s great is because the PR is so poor for investors, you have such an incredible opportunity to differentiate and pivot in the totally opposite direction. If the credibility was amazing, it’d be a little harder to separate. But because people are so dubious, and they’re so nervous, and it’s such a big decision, there’s such a huge opportunity to be the knight in shining armor and empower these folks with what they’re really looking for, and this brings us to number three, which is what folks are really looking for when they call, so is it okay if we jump into that?
Clint: Yeah, go right ahead.
Max: The number three is the difference between customer service and sales. There’s a huge difference. Folks, a lot of times, just really don’t understand the buying cycle of a customer and you have to be on their buying cycle, because they’re the ones who are dictating that. If you’re not, then you’re just wasting money it’s going to go awry. A lot of investors think realtors, brokers think that when somebody calls into the office, that’s a lead. It’s your job to sell them on stuff. That’s really not the case at all, there’s two phases.
There’s a customer service side where people are calling to get information to learn. They’re curious about you, but now is the time where they’re doing research. Now’s the time where they’re going online to look you up and see what everybody’s saying about you. This is when they go to social media, they talk to their friends and family, but they don’t need you to give them a benefit statement and start selling them, they’re not ready to buy.
When people call, a great way to really jack up your results and differentiate yourself is number one, answer the phone. Only 1 out of 10 investors do. It goes to voicemail and they’re proud of that, big mistake. When somebody’s calling you see where you can serve them, put them first. When they’re calling, identify if they’re calling because they’re trying to get information, that’s customer service and experience, or if they really are in the decision making model and they need to get to that point.
What a lot of folks do, what I used to do that was 100% wrong, is I was like I only want to talk to people who are motivated, who want to do something right now, huge mistake. Everybody does become motivated and want to do something, you want to get in and start building a relationship with them as early in the cycle as possible, so when they are ready, you’re the only person that they’re talking to. Does that make sense?
Clint: It’s called building a lead funnel.
Max: There you go.
Clint: Everyone who’s in business with sales related understands that concept. I think a lot of real estate investors don’t if they haven’t been in the business before, you need to cultivate these leads. That cycle, as you just stated, could be six months, could be nine months, could be a year. What happens is it builds on itself. As you said, you’re answering your phone, your phone just starts to ring, ring, ring all the time because of all those people you’ve cultivated. That’s a really good point that I hope people listening in on this are picking up on, that it’s not about the immediate, just looking for today. You have to think long term. You’re building the business.
Max: People understand it in other industries better, like an informational marketing side. People get that all the time, because that’s really most of the business comes from that. They have automated ways of following up, but they’ve taken time to study exactly what you said, how to cultivate that customer. If folk investors who get on that, that’s a huge benefit, and that’s stuff that we teach on our channel too. Are you ready for number four? We’re getting towards the end.
Clint: One thing I want to say about that too that people pick up on is that when you’re sending the books out, I imagine some people think, well, I wouldn’t read that book. You don’t have to have somebody read it. You said my book’s on your shelf. You’re probably going to tell me you read it, maybe you did, but maybe you just glanced at it, went through it, pulled out a nugget or two that you wanted. But the fact is that it’s there, it opened the door. What I found is that a lot of people that don’t read my book from start to finish, but the fact that they have it, they know then that I’m the expert in that area, and that is what you’re trying to cultivate by putting it in our hands.
Max: Yes, it’s a business card that they never throw away. It’s the bandit sign that’s in their living room, so when all the yahoos go to some boot camp to learn how to lose money on their first deal, or how to maximize their poor credibility and name recognition in the market by backing out of the first three contracts they ever get into, because they don’t know what they’re doing. They’re knocking on the door saying hey, I was just lying to people. If you have to lie to people to make a living, you can’t tell people what your business name is because you’re illegally sending them text messages, I don’t get that, I don’t live like that. I’m not judging people, but that’s not a real business to me.
I’m over here creating real business. I’m consulting with companies that have businesses, they want to do this for a long time. You have to do it the right way, there are no shortcuts, like you said. I know you put a lot of effort in to get to know your customer and serve them at the highest level, and that’s why you have so many loyal people on the show, and your customers. Every business needs to be like that.
If you’re just an opportunity seeker, we’re in a peak market every barista in Starbucks is leaving their job to flip real estate. None of this stuff is going to make any sense to you because you’re like oh, this is like the slow lane. I just want to go door knocking, lie to people, use the script from a boot camp and wholesale houses to riches. That’s just garbage. You get washed out as soon as the interest rate goes up half a percent.
When people are doing all that stuff, your book, my book, the books, whatever you give people that are sticking around, they’re in their living room, and they’re saying, hey, Mavis, that’s the customer. You go tell that real estate person to leave because whenever you’re ready to sell your house, there’s no rush. You know the expert and you can just give me a call. It’s just serving people at a higher level. They want that and it’s serving your business better too.
Clint: How many people do you find that you’ve talked to actually look you up on the internet, these sellers that you’ve sent the books out to? Is that very common?
Max: Extremely common. People don’t realize how common it is. If you knew, the biggest risk in your business are the things that you don’t see. It’s just like rehabbing a house. The stuff that you can see is not the problem, it’s the stuff behind the walls.
Folks are going online. That is how the customer buying cycle is happening, and so if they go online, and they find bad stuff, that’s bad. If they find nothing, that’s also bad. What are you doing as a business owner to manage your online brand, reputation, and presence? Being proactive about it allows you to have some say in the conversation, not just two or three motivated sellers who are mad at the world and posted a bad review that isn’t really accurate, you know what I mean?
Clint: Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. There’s subtext here to what you’re talking about it, sending out the book’s one part of it, but also you should develop an online presence, maybe do some YouTube videos on that subject matter that speaks to your audience until that adds another level of credibility.
Max: You’re right, and that goes to number four, you’re exactly right, which is developing a niche. A niche is a true specialty. It’s where you actually know something. You have a deeper level of knowledge about something than your competitors, and that creates a better value proposition for your customer, and that’s why they pick you. I hear a lot of folks like, no, I don’t want to be niched. I just want to generalize. It’s a scarcity mindset.
Riches are in the niches. Dan Kennedy says that I really believe it, and a niche is also good for your business. It’s also good for your customer, because you can serve them at a higher level. Clint, you’re an attorney, right?
Max: Do you do all kinds of law, immigration law, and divorce, and everything?
Clint: I know where you’re going with this, is that we picked the niche when we started, and that was to focus on asset protection for investors. We did it in a way that is unlike any what most attorneys the way they practice. In fact, my grandfather sat down with me because he was an attorney for 50 years. He said, you’re never going to find success as an attorney the way you practice law, because you give it all away. I looked at it and I said, well, first off, you’re right, but second of all, you’re wrong.
I don’t see myself as an attorney, I see myself as an educator. I’m building a business here, I’m not building a traditional law firm. I found that there’s a niche in providing the education which, as you just stated, develops a rapport with the clients where they see you as an expert, and then they want to use you. That’s a really important concept for people to grasp.
Max: The fact is niches are great. I really love working with seniors. I think in the real estate market they have so many needs. I would go buy houses from folks, seniors, and typical scenarios they’ve lived in their house for 40 years. There’s a lot of deferred maintenance, they don’t know how to get it fixed up. They don’t really know how much it’s worth.
They know they need to live somewhere else, but they don’t know where to go and how much it’s going to cost and how they’re going to pay for it, and then they have children that don’t live at home that either try to help from afar or they’re meddling and making things more difficult. These seniors, maybe they lost a spouse recently, or they have a physical situation, really, they’re seniors, just like my grandma.
She lost her husband and then lived another 25 years by herself in her house, having deferred maintenance. She wasn’t wealthy by any means, and there are millions of seniors like that, that need help. It’s a huge opportunity for investors and real estate professionals who, number one, have the heart of love. They want to help people, they want to help seniors, they had a senior that was a big part of their life and they want to grow their business. If you do that through education, it’s lights out.
When you specialize and focus on a niche, you can help those people at a way higher level than your competition. Honestly, not to be arrogant, but you won’t have any competition because you have it so dialed in, you’re working with these people with similar needs. Being an educator is a huge benefit not just because your audience is absorbing education, but it’s because in order to be an educator, you’re constantly learning.
There are a lot of professionals out there where the learning stops when they get out of college or law school, but you’re always reading and learning how you can help, and educate, and serve your customers. I’m doing the same thing. I’m always asking questions because I want to know what they want to learn about and then I learn it and teach it to them.
You really can take people to the 10X, 100X value level by focusing on a niche and that’s why I think we both agree on that one.
Clint: Absolutely. Okay, so that’s four.
Max: Are you ready for number five?
Clint: I am.
Max: This is it, drumroll. It’s becoming an author, and we’ve talked about it a little bit but I just don’t think folks truly, and if you’ve never been an author, you don’t understand how powerful it is. If you took numbers one through four, direct mail, all the things that we just taught today, the transitional call to action, customer service, first sales, and niche. You really dialed those in, and you added them all together, and multiplied them by 10, they would be a grain of sand on the beach compared to the power of being an author. It is a superpower. I’m not understating it.
There are really three principles to it. There’s being authority, which I think the word author is in the word authority. I’m dyslexic, but I have great proofreaders, but authority, expert and celebrity status are the three superpowers of becoming an author. This is not about driving your ego and getting famous and all this stuff, but this is real superpower. People perceive you differently.
When I didn’t have a book, I would go over to people’s houses and I was in the junk mail pile. I was a dime a dozen. I knew I could serve them at a higher level, but they didn’t know. Like we said at the beginning of the podcast, I wasn’t able to cut through the noise. On my first appointment when I finished my book a year and a half ago or so, I took my book with me and the senior was so interested in my book, they didn’t even want to talk to me, they wanted to just read the book.
Then I learned, okay, now when people call, I say, have you got a copy of my book yet? I say, can you come over to my house, and I say, have you got a copy of my book yet? They’re like, no. You have a book? The whole game changes. I said yeah, I wrote a book, step by step senior housing guide. Here’s what I’ll do. It’s on senior housing, but it covers real estate and chapter three is all the ways to sell your house.
How about this, I’ll courier over a copy of my book to you. I’ll come over in a couple days, and then just read chapter three, all the ways to sell your house. If you change your mind, just call me. I won’t come over and then otherwise, I’ll see you in a couple days. What that does in a very competitive market, do you live in a competitive market? Where are you at? Seattle?
Clint: I’m in Tacoma.
Max: Tacoma. Are there a lot of real estate investors and everything?
Clint: Absolutely. It’s so hard to invest here. Your cap rates, people are getting in at 6% thinking they’re getting the deal.
Max: Exactly. I’m in Dallas-Fort Worth and I have licensees coast to coast, California to Connecticut, and everybody’s saying the same thing. There are a lot of people investing, it’s hard to get good deals. One of the things I hear a lot from investors is that somebody will call them that want to maybe sell the house to them, and they’re like come out right now, and it’s like the first person that races out to the house buys it.
For me when I send the book, the sales process really shuts down. They call the other people that were going to come over and say we don’t need you to come over anymore. They get rid of the list of the other people that were going to call, and they wait for me. They invest seven hours with me when I’m not there, because they read my books. By the time I show up to their house or somebody from my team, or one of our licensees who co-authors our books all over the nation, they’ve already invested seven hours with us by reading our book and reading our story. It does all the heavy lifting for us, so it’s an incredibly powerful tool. If you’re in a competitive market there are a lot of benefits.
The other last two, and then we’ll have a little time or something if we have some questions. You have the authority, you’re the expert. Once again, that’s a term. The fastest way to increase results in your marketing is to change your customers’ perception of you in their mind, period. If that’s all you need, stop the show here, but keep listening because we got a free gift for everybody who stays on. If your customer sees you as a salesperson, that’s what you are, they have something that you want, and they’re going to treat you like that. They’re going to treat you like a transaction, and it’s just whoever can pay the most for the house, you’re going to lose, they’re going to win. It’s a win lose.
If they see you as the expert, you have the power to prescribe. I used to go over to people’s houses to buy their house, and they would argue with me. They’d be like the house is worth way more than that, or the repair doesn’t need that much repair. I bought this carpet in 1982 and it is fine. I know I’m the expert. You’re the expert in your niche and your law.
At the time, the customer didn’t really understand it. Now, I have the power to prescribe. I say something and they do what I say. It’s like going to the doctor’s office and they say you have this problem and you need this. If you really feel like that person is the expert that you’re saying, then you listen to them most of the time. That’s a benefit.
The last one is the celebrity. I don’t really know how to explain it, but people just act irrationally around celebrities. I’ve had World War II vets want to take selfies with me before I cross the threshold of their house. I mean, this is weird. I used to go to houses individually. Now, I have 30 people come to my office to do a workshop and a book signing.
We just did a workshop with our workbook system for one of our licensees in Orlando. He had 30 people come to his office, Chick-fil-A. Louie loved Chick-fil-A. They sponsored the event, they donated the food because we told them it was a senior planning workshop, which it is. They’re donating the food for a for-profit business meeting instead of me driving to look at 30 properties. They come to my office. I’m not a salesperson, I’m in a position of authority, expertise, and celebrity. We’re doing a book signing and we’re doing video testimonials at the end that we put on the website. This is a better way to run your business. The customer is happier and you’ll be happier.
Here’s my advice to everybody who stayed on whether you get involved in my book system, we’ll put some links down below. You can call, reach out, and we’ll show you what we’re doing. You can talk to our investors who are using this system all over the nation. Whether you use our system or someone else’s, or you write your own, get involved with books because they’re very powerful. Clint, you have books. I’m sure you can attest to this too.
Clint: Absolutely. What I was going to say about that is my first book took me two years to put together. I’m on my second book and I started it two years ago. This week, it’s amazing we’re on this phone and we’re doing this podcast together, I started up again working on the book. I already have all the chapters done but I go back through and I keep working on it and refining it to get it to speak the way I want it to sound to my audience. That is time consuming. It takes a ton of effort, heavy lifting to do that. But when you can go to someone who has already done all that heavy lifting for you and just present you something, it doesn’t really have to have your voice, it just needs to convey that you’re an expert in the field.
I tell you, a part of me wishes it was manual optics. People often asked me. They say, Clint, what other books should I read about asset protection for real estate investors? And I tell them, there’s nothing out there besides my book. There really isn’t. I saw that when I started writing the book, there wasn’t anything like that that has been written before. You offer that to people. I mean, you’ve already done it. That’s what you’re saying, as I understand it, that people can take advantage of.
Max: Yeah, we have a book. I take my book and my workbook which I use to unlock things. Me and my team are at churches doing workshops for seniors and their adult children. We’re getting new customers at senior centers. We’re at all these places that were traditionally off limits to discount homebuyers. Now, the folks are welcoming us in and they’re actually paying to do all the marketing.
It was so funny when I was Max Buys Homes and I had a similar content presentation. I know houses, I have experience, I love seniors. When I wanted to go up there and teach, they were like no thanks. And then when I was savior, like our Lord and Savior, which for the Christian church is not very threatening, they were like no thanks. But then when I was the local author of a book and a workbook offering to teach a free workshop to their audience, do a book signing, I sent them a copy of the book and the workbook, they’re like wow, this is amazing. Come on down.
We have templates already. People who join our system in less than 30 days, they get two books plus the whole system on how to actually use it in their local area. The good news is we’ve already done the heavy lifting, we’ve done all the templates. For about two hours of effort, we personalize, we write your story into it, we do the work.
It’s a very quick and easy way to basically go from no book, competing with the junk mail pile, and not standing out to within 30 days being that true local expert. It’s not making you an expert, you already are, but now your customer knows it. Somebody who’s brand new just doesn’t become an expert, that’s not how it works.
We have a whole system that we plug people into, and we only allow a certain number of people per geographical area. Most areas are just one. Once your area is gone, that’s it. We want people to truly have a business building tool where they can take this curriculum, share it with seniors, share it with homeowners, share it with their adult children, and teach, educate, and help their community, and also build their business.
This is where I got the idea from. I don’t think I’ve ever told the story before. I was skiing with some friends, they’re very successful in business. It’s the end of the year and they’re talking to their CPA, they’re talking to their tax planning attorney. They have a high net worth, they have a lot of assets, they have great people to help them.
I was living in two parallel worlds. I get down skiing, I’d go back home, and I go to Gladys’s house. She worked at the phone company, she just lost her husband, she’s got a little pension, a little social security. Her house is falling apart, her kids live in another state. She doesn’t know what to do. She doesn’t know how much her house is worth, she doesn’t know how she’s going to stick around, she doesn’t know where she should move to and how much it’s going to cost. Every single time she wants to get the answers to those questions, she has to call a straight commission salesperson that pretty much just tries to talk to them into their option only.
What this has allowed is for me and my members across the nation to really make that pivot to go to Gladys, to go to Mavis, to go to these families and say we’re the resource, we’re the foundational source for anything related to this topic, and we’re here to share these resources, connect, and point you to places that don’t monetarily benefit us, but we have a big network of folks. It’s a really different way to build your business. If you want to learn more how to do that, we’ll put some contact information down below.
Clint, you were talking about your book journey. I have a book template that I use. I’ve written three books, I’m on number four, and I use a template to start every book. When I consult for other people and they want me to write custom books, I use the same one and I charge a lot. I’m offering it to your audience for free. All they have to do is just click on the link, fill out the info, and they’ll get access to our business system’s library.
All the systems that we use to run our multiple real estate and marketing companies, they get access to those. If people want to continue their conversation, learn more about this book system, or they want a free copy of the book, there’ll be a link in there. They can just click it. For the first 50 people who comment, give it a thumbs up, and reach out to us, we’ll send you a free copy of the book. You can either get involved in our system or you can just use it as a template and figure out what you want to do. Get involved in books. It’s powerful.
Clint: I’ll tell you this, having that template makes the job so much easier. After I did my first book, I have the template. In my second book, I’m just using that same template that I put together for the first book. You find your voice in doing that. This is great. Take advantage, go to the link, it’s in the show notes, click on that, and go grab those templates. Get that information, get that learning, and definitely you should check out the books.
I have three copies of his book that Max sent to me and there are two different sizes. You have one larger one and then two smaller, we have a local edition. I tell you what, when they come in, it looks like something that someone in that position is looking to sell their home or they’re considering it in a distress situation, they’re going to see this as an authoritative book. It’s well put together.
Great job on doing what you’ve done. I hope people take advantage of this and get the education. Is there anything else you’d like to say to them?
Max: No. Thanks everybody for listening. Like I said, just engage. Clint, I appreciate you. You have a fabulous show. If you liked it today, give it a thumbs up, subscribe. It helps us spread it to other people. I think we’re just both on an education journey and always looking for more people to bless. Just take advantage of it, take action. Don’t be one of these people who listen to podcasts and then say, oh, I feel good for a couple hours but I’m not getting results. Just fill out the link, get the business systems, peruse. I’ve got a link on there for a 15 minute call. I’d love to send you a copy of the book, chat, and see if it’s a fit. If it’s not, I can connect you too with people in my network that can maybe serve you at a different level.
Clint: Max, thanks for taking the time today. I really appreciate that. I hope people reach out and get this information. I know it’s going to benefit them going forward. Thanks for taking time. I look forward to having you on the podcast in a few more months.
Max: Sounds good. Bye y’all.
Clint: Bye. Solid. Very good. I can tell this was your first time so I appreciate it.
Max: I’m shy. I turn the digital back on. I’ve always been like this. I’m glad that I get to do this for a living. It’s really fun. It’s fun to help people and make money. Making money is good. Back in my 20s, I was a straight commission recruiter. I was making really good money, placing high level accounting finance people, but I was so transactional. I only thought about myself. I was really an idiot. When I tried to go out on my own, I didn’t have relationships. When the market corrected, all my hiring managers were getting laid off. It just sucked. It was so short sighted.
One of our friends that left our firm at the same time, he had real relationships. We made fun of them because they only had three clients, but they were like oil and gas in defense, contracting. That was still going on when the crash was happening. Now he owns CFO Search and he’s super successful. He was about my age then that I am now. I didn’t know if I ever had the option to do this again. When I got into real estate and took off, I never stopped figuring out how I can make my customer successful because if we make our customers successful and pour into them, we don’t have to worry about sales, we don’t have to worry about marketing. There is word of mouth. They’re all passing out my book.
I just had somebody new get it in CG and they’re all showing it to people. I just got this book system in Investor Fuel and the other Masterminds. Word gets around quick. I just started to really let the cat out of the bag outside of friends and family about this. I’m predicting this year is gonna be huge.
A lot of people need digital marketing services too. They’re calling companies. They’re not calling them back. They charged them $3000. They’re getting no results. They’re getting ripped off. I think it sucks. It makes me really angry so I’m learning that. I’ve already been doing it in my business. I’m gonna start offering that to my members first. It’ll just be really fun to help them and obviously, it’s good business for me too so I couldn’t be happier.
Clint: How do you hear me? Do you have an ear plug in?
Max: No. On this mic, it’s sound reducing. I’m just bringing you in on the speakers. It doesn’t go through here because it automatically cancels it out.
Clint: Oh, that’s just the Blue Mic.
Max: The Blue Mic will automatically do that for me so I don’t have to plug in because when I have the headphones, it just creates a little echo. I don’t like it as much. What kind of mic do you have?
Clint: For the audience, it’s my headset, but I do have two Blue Mics. I have a small one that I travel with if I’m going to be doing a podcast from the road, but I have the same exact one as you do, the Yeti. That one you’re using there, I got the same one.
Max: It’s been good so far. Does this look okay or do you have any tips because you’ve been doing this longer than me? I just started doing this.
Clint: No, man. I like the minimalist look. It looks great. Having your book properly displayed somewhere could help.
Max: That’s a good point.
Clint: I would do this. I would frame it. Put it in a shadowbox frame. That always looks pretty cool too so people can see it that way.
Max: Shadowbox frame. Okay, cool.
Clint: You got the manual and the book. You know you get one at 49.95 I think. I forget the other one. It was 18, 20 bucks.
Max: Yeah, 12.99.
Clint: That would help too, both of them.
Max: Cool. Great idea. Thank you. Is there anything else I can do for you?
Clint: No, man.
Max: I like to make my friends money. If we can become friends over time, I can help you. I just rolled out a new hiring system. I don’t really like to create systems for my business to sell. I just give them to my friends. If you ever need help with that and a bunch of people at the Platinum level at Investor Fuel needed help and they took it, I created a whole course and I’m doing intelligence testing on all my employees. Have you ever done that before?
Clint: We do the same thing. Before we hire them and bring them in for an interview, they have to take an online test.
Max: Is it WonScore?
Clint: Maybe it is.
Max: Wonderlic? I bet you did.
Clint: I don’t recall. It’s timed.
Max: 12 minutes, 50 questions. It’s one score. I use that too. You like it?
Clint: Yeah. I took it. I guess I shouldn’t hire myself.
Max: I doubt that.
Clint: It does a really good job. Not only that, but also picking personalities because there’s a personality aspect to it as well. If you’re hiring someone for sales, it comes back and it says, this is not a salesman.
Max: Yeah, that’s what we use. Predictive Index does IQ and behavioral, but most people don’t use it for that. One score is the 12 minute, 50 question IQ, and then it’s motivation and personality. That’s what’s in my system and that’s probably the same one that you all use.
Clint: Yeah, it works great. Well, great interview. I’m going to try to get this one posted sooner rather than later. I’ll see where I can fit you in. I think it’s going to be well received for sure. Just don’t tell Glenn I’m going to push you in front.
Max: No. He’s okay with it. He’s cool. Like I said, we went down that road together and he wants me to push. I didn’t get to promote my book much last year because I was doing mobile homes with him. I found out you can’t do two things. It’s impossible. This is really where my heart is and I think it comes through. If you run into the gentleman from the badass real estate expo, if you can provide the introduction, that would be amazing. Where do you like to speak because I’m speaking at big places? Is there anywhere that I can hook you guys up with or what do you all need more or less of this year?
Clint: I’m always looking for more affiliates. People that can push people to our events are what we’re looking for to help fill them.
Max: More affiliates. Do you ever do anything with Mike Hanbridge’s Group, Investor Fuel?
Clint: I’ve been on his podcast before. I know Mike.
Max: He doesn’t like doing a lot of affiliate marketing, but he had any speed come to one of his live events and he put a lot of people in the event. Investor Fuel did one speak last year in Salt Lake City which isn’t too far in your neighborhood. It’s a big group. Between the two days, it’s 120 people and most of them were Platinum people. They’re sophisticated. They’re hundreds of deals, a really good group. Anyways, for what it’s worth, that might be a good one.
Clint: He’s not FlipNerd, is he?
Max: Yeah, that’s him.
Clint: I was on his show. He had me as one of the experts for maybe a year and a half, two years. I would cut webinars for him and he would send them out. We got zero leads from that. It didn’t pull anything in. Here’s what happens a lot of times. Content for content sake, the promoters think, well, that’s great, I’ll put you out there and it’s going to generate revenue. It doesn’t work that way. What you need is Mike bringing everybody in and says, this is the guy you need to use and here are the reasons why. If you don’t have that endorsement, it’s a slow, hard process to bring people up so many times. There’s a guy named Phill Grove who I worked with down in Texas.
Max: I need to meet him.
Clint: He gives me the endorsement and he fills our events. Are you in Dallas?
Max: Yeah, I’m in Dallas and I went to one of their events. That was before I was an author and I was just in Masterminds. There were a lot of new people that are super cool. I want to meet them but I don’t like calling people up and just acting like a groupie. I like doing introductions, sending them a book, and stuff like that. At some point in the future, I want to get to know them a little better.
Clint: Just let me know. I can do a joint introduction. He’s right to the point. His take is going to be, why do I want to talk to you, what are you going to do for me or for my clients that I don’t have or can do for them.
Max: Nobody is really doing PR for real estate investors. What we’re going to do is our agency is going to put people on TV, radio spots. I just brought somebody on our team that worked with big people. Twenty percent affiliate on a $3000, $6000, and $9000 program that people have a strong appetite for. When I went to the residential assisted living, I sent them a $24,000 check. That speaks for it. If people like money, it’s pretty obvious. It’s a lucrative deal.
Clint: No, absolutely. You’re gonna be at Jean’s event this year, Netcon?
Max: Yeah. Are you going to be there? Your team will be there?
Clint: Yeah, my partner Toby is there. Their works are great.
Max: Cool. Thank you. Good luck for the rest of your stuff. If you need any help, please let me know.
Clint: I appreciate it. I will do that email right now, make the introduction to the two of you, and take it from there.
Max: Thank you, sir. Have a great day.
Clint: Bye-bye. You too.
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