150% Commitment: Joey DeMaio Of Manowar on Succeeding In Today’s Music Industry

Joey, just give me a minute. You’re going to have to endure some of this, but I want to make sure that people understand the breadth and scope of the artists and the business person that we have in front of us because it doesn’t matter what you do, the way you do it speaks volumes. I think Joey and I would agree on that. Joey, you would agree because we were talking earlier about even sweeping the floor, you do it to the best of your ability.

Joey is the owner of something called Valhalla Studios in New York. Joey, I’m going to ask for your help on this real quick because is it the most accurate depiction of audio on the planet in the United States? Is it one of the top studios as far as the accuracy of the music?

Joey: Not to pat ourselves on the shoulder, but we’re proud of the fact that we have two very similar yet very different recording studios that are both extremely accurate and have been certified for Dolby Atmos, Sony 360, and AURO-3D.

The studio I’m sitting in now has just been named the reference control room for AURO-3D by the actual inventor of not only the format which is a super high fidelity, very pure, immersive audio format but also the inventor of the greatest recording studio in the world, Galaxy Studios in Belgium. We just received that certification two or three weeks ago. You could have knocked me over with a feather when he said that.

Toby: First off, congratulations. Second off, in the whole world, is there an even higher certification, or is that the highest certification that’s out there right now?

Joey: It’s the highest certification that they could give for their format, what they are doing in immersive audio, what they have invented, and what they believe to be the most accurate way to reproduce that particular format.

Toby: Right there, you’re in rare air. This is what’s really exciting. We’ll get back to that. I managed to make it through almost one sentence before I had to bring you in. I have to do a couple of things so people know who you are 100%.

He also owns Magic Circle Entertainment Group and founded as the bass guitarist, lyricist, engineer, and producer the world-renowned metal rock band Manowar. You’ve been around since when? Give people an idea.

Joey: The band was formed in 1980.

Toby: You guys have been rocking it ever since. I can say this because I went to your concert in Athens last year with one of our guys, […], here who is a true metalhead and has an encyclopedic knowledge of this stuff. You’re still doing world tours and killing it. In fact, you’re about to head out on another one, aren’t you?

Joey: Correct, in about two weeks.

Toby: All right. I have to get through some of this stuff because it’s 1980, and it’s over 19 albums.

Joey: I think 14 or something like that. If you count live albums, singles, and EPs, of course, it’s right around that number.

Toby: You’ve done over 35 world tours. You’ve been on the road like when people say, oh, I hit the road. Thirty-five actual world tours.

Joey: Yeah. I’ve racked up some frequent flyer miles in that time. That’s for sure.

Toby: You do everything. You’re self-managed. You guys do everything through Magic Circle Entertainment Group, right?

Joey: Yes. Not by choice. I never found my Peter Grant. As you know, Peter Grant was the legendary manager of Led Zeppelin. He was like a fifth member of the band. I think he was the standard by which all managers—at least at that time—were judged and probably still should be in many ways.

Toby: Here’s the thing that amazes me. I’m not going to just keep beating on you because you have a pedigree that’s a mile long, but you’re also a Ph.D. in music.

Joey: Yes. I have been fortunate enough to have that honor bestowed upon me through a couple of organizations in Europe that look for people who are able to achieve something and share it with the world.

You are passed among a group of people who are experts in any particular area, they evaluate you on what you have been able to do, and they then are able to say, well, certainly, he is deserving of a bachelor’s degree, master’s degree, Ph.D., or so forth.

It’s more of an honorary degree in the sense that I don’t think I could take it to Yale, walk through the door, and say I’m ready to teach. On the other hand, as one of the gentlemen told me, he said, well, how many teachers do you think that are out there that had a career, understand and do what you do, and sold 30 million records?

I think that practical experience should weigh in the way it did in ancient Greece. You had to actually prove yourself by doing.

Toby: Nowadays, we get a piece of paper, we go out, and then we try to make our career. Some people go back, but for the most part, we tend to ignore the world of experience.

I just wanted to touch on that because you have a background. I remember that you did Jesus Christ Superstar and a bunch of production in things other than metal. That was something you did with orchestras.

I know that you’ve done composing and some really cool stuff. You’re not just, hey, I’ve been in a metal band since 1980 that’s one of the most successful metal bands on the planet.

In the United States, we would love to see more following, but you have a huge worldwide following. Just for kicks and giggles, go out there, google Manowar, and look at some of the concerts.

I know that there’s one, Warriors of the World, I believe. I’m trying to think of where it was. It might have been in Brazil, but 75–80 million views is an astounding number. You have a huge fan base around the world.

Joey: Very fortunate and very blessed to have come upon a style of music that as long as you are true to your music, you’re true to the fans, and your quality never dips, I think you could play for your whole life. I’ve always admired bands that are still playing today.

In Europe, at least you have bands like Uriah Heep and Deep Purple. Led Zeppelin could play for the rest of their lives. AC/DC and even Metallica, who is a current band. But they, of course, started in the ‘80s or maybe even sooner.

I think this kind of music is something that is a lifestyle. People just like bands and stay with them in this genre. I was fortunate enough to fall in love with this style of music early on.

Briefly, about what you were talking about earlier, I was lucky enough to land a job in a pit orchestra for a couple of broadway musicals which really put me on the path to understanding and studying classical music. I think that’s what you were talking about. That was also just a wonderful experience and a tremendous education, studying with some excellent, world-class, orchestral musicians.

It made me realize that everything I had done up to that point was good foundational work for performing live, but to work with studied musicians that could really read music and understand the theory, harmony, counterpoint, orchestration, arranging, and all of the other things that are so vital that can be applied and are applied to rock, “pop music”, or any recording at all was a blessing to fall into. It was good fortune. Good luck.

Toby: When did you realize that your livelihood in your life was going to be music?

Joey: I saw The Beatles on Ed Sullivan when I was 10 years old. It was October of ‘64. I said, well, my God, that’s definitely for me. Nothing could be more perfect. Long hair, girls screaming, playing guitar, this just looks wonderful.

I saw the pictures of them at the airport landing on the jet and I said, well, this is obviously something that’s right for me.

Then, after playing early on, I actually joined a band almost immediately a couple of weeks after I took lessons even though I didn’t really know what I was doing. I suddenly realized that that hour on stage is interesting and fun, but the other 23 involve things like logistics, counting, and all of the other components that without, you certainly can’t get on stage and play.

Toby: This is a business podcast, so I’m going to bring it back to the business of music. You’re talking to people out there. Maybe they’re musicians, thinking about becoming a musician, or taking it to the next level. What are a few things that people would be surprised to know about the business of music having been on it on the inside for decades? What are the few little nuggets?

Joey: I think that musicians of today need to really think of themselves as a split personality. I don’t mean to become a psycho or anything. I mean that I think musicians today are more cognizant of the fact that we are in the music business. That means no business, no music and no music, no business.

The band feeds everybody. If the band doesn’t play or record, no one else including the band eats. But if the band plays and records, everyone eats. Going outward from the band members to their immediate families, crews that set up the equipment, maintain it, and work on it, music stores, agents, managers, record companies, publishers, merchandise companies, and Internet providers now that music is being distributed digitally, everything spiderwebs outward from the kernel, center, or nucleus, and that is the band and the music.

I think a real firm understanding of the mechanics of the business, and of course, the finances of it are essential for musicians today. Not that that’s a new concept because if you read the lives of some of the great composers—for instance, Paganini—these guys died with money. They were smart about how they used their money.

In my case, I’m not so smart about how I use it because I take and reinvest just about everything I have back into something that will feed the machine in a way that I can relate to it. For instance, recording studios or investing in the best bussing, trucking, lighting, and sound so I can enhance our performance and give our fans 300% value for their ticket.

A hundred percent today is not enough. The competition out there is rabid, so I feel that I have to exceed at least 150% consistently to give the fans the feeling that what we’re doing is really from the heart, and it’s all for them. I think you have to really go that extra mile.

If you’re not prepared to commit to a Zen life of a monk in terms of your dedication to your instrument, music, and what you create, then you better be lucky enough to have an uncle that works at a record company or somewhere that you can just do whatever you want but still do your art and have it work.

My structure is very much hands-on and based that way out of necessity. If you want to be in this business just for fun, there’s not a lot of fun worrying about the financial side, but there could be an incredible amount of fun if somebody else is dealing with it that is going to ensure that the finances all balance at the end of the year, end of the week, or the end of the night.

These are the things that are essential building blocks for any business. This podcast is fun for me because business is business. If it doesn’t make dollars, it doesn’t make sense if you know the old saying.

Toby: It can be a nice hobby otherwise, but if you want to actually make your living in the industry, it sounds like you have to jump in and make a full commitment unless you get lucky.

Joey: You brought up something that’s very, very true. This goes for people who just really enjoy playing. Because I have a consulting company as well, I have so many people that are in their mid-50s. They’re like, look, I’m ready now to make a record. I’m retired, semi-retired, or in a financial position where I want to buy that dream guitar and amplifier.

That is amazing because you’re really doing something that’s pure and from the heart. It doesn’t matter whether you want to play country, jazz, or blues. If you’re going to do something from the heart, it’s going to be great. When I mean it’s going to be great, it’s going to be great because it’s pure, you’re making it, and you love it. Just the way somebody starts out and completely without knowing what’s going to happen, they just bang on the guitar. Hey, it’s pure, and that’s great.

If you’re doing it for that reason, then you’re always going to be happy. You’re not doing it necessarily for the money. But if you’re doing it for the money, then you have to think about other parameters.

But like you said, you can be just as happy in your garage with a few friends and a few beers and blast and have a great time. It’s all about knowing what you really want from the business because you’ll get from this business what you put into it. It’s exactly proportionate. Five hours a day, that’s what you’ll get back.

Toby: That’s a good way to look at it. There are the people that get their guitar, they’re going to play it, and then all of a sudden, they want to be in a band, and then they’re wondering why they’re not getting signed.

Now, we have the Internet. When you started, you didn’t have the Internet. You got on TV or the radio to get heard. Was that really it? Is there anything else? Maybe live venues?

Joey: There were magazines. Back then, rock magazines were important. Of course, touring is always important because if you can’t deliver a great performance live of the music that you’ve recorded, then you’re missing half of the fun.

First of all, personally, I think the audience is missing the half that they’re looking forward to after they get a recording. You got to be able to get out there, deliver, and kick ass just like in a sports game.

Toby: You got to be able to bring it. I’ve witnessed you bringing it. Speaking of Manowar and bringing it, can you explain to somebody who doesn’t know who Manowar is what Manowar is about your music and your fans? Why do you have this huge following quite literally 40 some years later?

Joey: I think we were fortunate that the music that we perform and the lyrics are based on empowering people to shrug off a lot of the things that you deal with growing up that maybe you hang on to.

When I started playing at 10 years old, I can tell you, I didn’t get a lot of encouragement from even members of my own family, friends, or people.

Toby: Turn it down.

Joey: It’s too loud or who do you think you are? Get a lunchbox and go to work. You hear this stuff and you’re thinking, why? I’m seeing these people in magazines. They’re my heroes. I got their record. I read that this guy came from Indiana. I read that this guy came from Pennsylvania.

I think you carry a lot of that. I wanted to be able to inspire people to realize that it doesn’t matter who you are. Everybody has the right to be themselves. Other people cannot and are unable to define anybody else. If that was the case, then we could go to somebody and they can say, oh, yes, I can clearly see that you are a nuclear physicist. That’s great.

You live in Vegas. I can see that you are a top high roller. Go there and bet the farm, and you’re guaranteed to win.

It doesn’t exist, so I wanted to write some music that would make people feel empowered and powerful.

I’ve always liked movies. You saw those Clint Eastwood movies where the guy rides into town. He’s a stranger, and nobody knows him. They beat the life out of him, and then he comes back, kills all the bad guys, and rides off at the end of the movie with the girl on the horse.

Not necessarily that framework, but the sentiment behind it is there’s got to be some good in it for the good people. If you feel that way about yourself, you got to hang on to that and not let yourself get beat down.

I saw an interview with Henry Winkler once. They were talking to him about his audition. He said, I was going to go in for The Fonz. I remind myself every day that there’s a little guy on my shoulder, and he whispers in my ear, you can do it. You got the stuff, don’t worry. Then, there’s this other guy going, yeah, right. Don’t listen to him. He goes, if you don’t beat that guy down every day, he gets taller and taller.

I thought that was a pretty good analogy. You got to remind yourself that you got the right to be happy. Don’t listen to other people because if you do, you could have spent that time practicing the guitar, your singing, business mathematics, investing, or whatever you want to do. You just got to believe in yourself, not put blinders on like they do with those horses, and just keep going straight. That’s the essence of the music.

I think the honesty of what we’re trying to say is time-honored. I’m not inventing anything new. I’m just repeating some of the great phrases and some of the great feelings that all these amazing books, The Iliad & The Odyssey, have brought to life in some of the classic stories about all these great heroes.

Those were the kinds of movies that were made when I was young, so naturally, that influenced me to want to realize that I think everybody could be and is a hero in their own way. The fireman that runs and saves a baby from a building, that guy’s a hero. The guy that works and puts food on the table for his family like my dad, that guy was a hero.

I think everybody is their own hero and should be. If somebody tells you differently, they’re not friends.

Toby: Yeah. Somebody should go listen to Manowar and put themselves in that state of mind.

Joey: Yeah, and feel good about yourself. For the time that you were at that concert, you were with other people that wanted to be there to enjoy the fact that you’re going to recharge your batteries. You’re going to get away from the stuff we all have to deal with. We have to face reality, but it doesn’t mean we can’t take time away from it to enjoy a good movie, a good dinner, or a great concert or have fun in whatever way we do.

Toby: Absolutely. Well said and puts everything in perspective.

You are immersed in the business of music, not just in the production. You’re actually playing, and you have multiple businesses that are associated with the industry, but you’ve had a lot of success in all of them.

The band, Manowar, has been going out and is still going out on tour. You also have two or three studios now that you have running that are professional-grade studios.

Joey: Two.

Toby: You’ve won awards or scores that have been written and produced there that have actually won. What was the most recent?

Joey: Actually, the first one that we did was quite a surprise. We did a film called Judas and the Black Messiah. That was an amazingly powerful film. It was just a shock to us.

The gentleman mixing it is Jim Anderson. He’s one of the foremost jazz engineers in the world. He’s used to working at places like Skywalker Ranch. He came to us and said, I’d like to check out the studio. He mixed it, and we ended up winning awards for that movie which was just a knockout. That was during COVID. Things like that pump you up with good energy.

In addition to that, I have a consulting company as well for people that are interested in the music business. In addition to that, we sell our own merchandise printed. I go to the printery and look at every shirt to make sure that everything is up to the standards of quality.

I’m hands-on with all the various entities that compose the structure that is required to house and maintain a band. Recording the music, distributing it, performing, playing, the travel, and the logistics, all of that’s addressed by myself personally and a team of people.

I have two great people. I have Manoel Arruda who’s our business affairs manager who you met and, of course, Susanne Wagner who’s our operations manager. Without these two people, I wouldn’t be able to do what I do and along with the rest of the wonderful people you’ve also met on tour. I’m very, very blessed, I have to say.

Toby: I got to tell you, I just like Susanne’s last name because every time I think of Wagner, I think of Flight of the Valkyries. It’s the old goofy things that we used to always sing multiple times.

Joey: That’s a perfect example. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. When you share that music, how could you possibly be down? How could you be depressed? When you hear that music, you fill yourself up like a balloon with good energy.

Toby: Wagner also typifies everything you just said because he had to get sponsors to basically support him while he wrote some of the most amazing operas.

For those of you guys who don’t know Wagner, just google Wagner and you’ll recognize probably five or six. Everybody’s wedding walks out to Wagner. He’s one of the greatest composers of all time. He would have to move away from his family so that somebody would support him so he could write an opera.

Joey: Yes. That’s the thing also about musicians, and a lot of that has not changed because musicians traditionally did rely on support—I guess we still do—from people that had the financing.

When you start out today, you need a big money from a big record company in order to be a big artist. Do people break through? Sure, they break through to a point, but from that point, if you’re going to be a Beyonce, you need a machine that works with the Beyonces, Lady Gagas, Madonnas, Jay-Zs, and all of these people.

That’s a whole different level of success. You prove yourself worthy of that by the work that you do and the quality of the work. It’s something that has to be forged over time.

Toby: What do you say to somebody, let’s say, that is a small band? I always think of young people, but here in Vegas, I’m realizing there are a lot of bands. There are punk bands here where the frontman is 50-something years old, and I’m looking at him. They’re just really grinding away, crafting their trade, and they have their following, and then you hear about people signing with a label. You always hear, hey, I finally got signed.

I was in Seattle when the grunge thing hit. Everybody in their mother was getting signed, and then you’d never hear from them again. I always thought it was like the black pit. What do they do? They take you, produce your album, it didn’t sell, and you’re gone.

What do you say to somebody? Is that a route that people should really be considering? Is that the ultimate goal? Or would you advise people, hey, you know what, do your own thing and create your own? The Internet is so different nowadays. You get things out there. What’s your advice to especially the young artists?

Joey: As I said, I have a consulting company. I have people that will contact me and want to come in and say, would you speak with my son or my daughter? She wants to be an actress, he wants to be a rock star, and so forth. I’ll use that word because it’s a popular word.

The first thing I’ll say is why do you want to be in this business? What makes you want to do it? You can tell immediately somebody whose intention is because I love music and I want to play music.

Then, the next question is would you be happy for the rest of your life if you never made any money and you just want to play music? Would that be enough for you just to simply say, you know what, I play my guitar, I play in a little bar every now and then, I have a beer, and I have a sandwich at a modest apartment? I’m lucky to be able to support myself in my music. I give lessons. That’s my life.

It’s a very Zen way of thinking. Do you know many martial artists other than MMA guys who are looking at the financial aspect? Some of the people that I have met who have been true masters, I don’t believe they went into it for the money. They may have used and parlayed their success after a certain point and been able to monetize it, but I think the initial thought was I just love this and I want to do it. Why does a sculptor sculpt?

I think the intention has to be clear to the person. If they want to be a rock star, an entertainer, or a performer, that’s a different thing than being a musician because a musician can play his music in his bedroom. He doesn’t need a record company. He can play his music in his living room, play by himself, and play in the subway. That’s a musician, somebody who just wants to play a particular instrument.

For somebody who wants to perform live in front of 50,000 people, you may still be a musician and a great musician, but you have to have a different set of priorities and how you devote your time.

For me, I feel that in order to be a great musician, if that’s what you want, then most of your life is going to be spent becoming a great musician. Whether you’re going to be a composer, you’re going to have to sit around and compose until you compose something that’s so amazing that it’s enough to speak to you to then show it to the world, or maybe not. Maybe you just don’t want to show it to the world, and you’re able to support yourself and live in whatever style makes you happy simply by listening to your own music in your house.

It’s this vision of yourself. Where do you see yourself in two years? Where do you see yourself in eight years? Where do you see yourself in 20 years? Because in 20 years, you’re going to be 20 years older. Are you going to still be happy playing in a local bar for 50 people?

There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s great. I have tons of friends that do that, and they’re completely fulfilled. They’re completely happy. Some of them have tried this thing and said, I tried it, I did it, and it was cool for a while, but I can’t see myself doing it. I can’t see myself living out of a suitcase like you.

It’s being clear with yourself, your parents, and whoever is going to be around helping you that the investment that’s going to need to be made by yourself spiritually, emotionally, and in terms of your time and effort.

Somebody’s going to have to pay you for you to live while you’re practicing 10–12 hours a day. These are the things that have to be the most important thing. Clarity of purpose.

Toby: That is really good advice, but for somebody starting out, where does the money come from? Are they getting paid to go play places? Are they getting a beer because they played at a place? Do they get an open tab? Do they get a few dollars? Are they making their money from a record label who’s selling their albums? Is it the merchandise?

If somebody is getting started out, where does the money come from? I know you do these big, huge world tours. That’s got to be millions of dollars of expenditure and you’re hoping to obviously get that back plus a return. But most people couldn’t do that. They don’t have that type of money or that type of following. Where do you monetize these things?

Joey: Taking myself as an example, I think it’s a good example because I was born into a very, very middle-class family. My father made $50 a week on the police force. My mother made $50 a week as an accountant at General Electric. In those days, they were able to save one paycheck. That’s the way that I grew up.

In that scenario, in all the gigs that I played, we split off the money. We ended up making $10 each, so you didn’t really make enough money to live on your own had I not lived with my parents.

In fact, I never saw any real money to speak of until I was probably in my early 30s. Even with my first record deal at 26 years old, we got $150,000—$50,000 to make a record, $50,000 to do a tour, and $50,000 to buy equipment. That deal is still unrecouped today.

I think these learning curves that one has to go through in business are important lessons to people because there is no money until you do something of value that proves you can monetize what you’re doing.

There are outlets. There are people that just sit in their bedrooms and make YouTube videos, and they do pretty well financially, I have to say. There is a way to make a living today if that is the road you want to go, but those people I don’t think tour that much or have the other side. I think you have to confine yourself to that audience that tunes in and watches you on TV.

It’s like the old story, you can’t get money from a bank until you prove to them you don’t need it. I think you can’t get a good record deal until you can prove to the record company that you don’t need them, they need you. Because without musicians and music, what are they going to sell?

I know a girl who was making $200,000 a year, and she’s perfectly happy. She homeschools her kids, and she makes videos and music in her bedroom. It’s beautiful. She sings beautifully. She’s been approached by every major record company, and she just tells them, look, I’m making $200,000 a year. If you can do better than that by at least double, I’ll talk to you. If not, I don’t need to change what I’m doing. I’m very happy.

It is a new world, but she’s one of these exceptional people that is very driven, very motivated, very talented, and puts everything into her music.

I think it goes back to what we’re talking about earlier. If this life is you or whatever life you choose—sports, business, basketball—you’re going to find your way through everybody else because you’re wading through the people that are comme ci, comme ça. They’re not 100% sure.

When a chance comes to advance themselves, will they take it? I don’t know. While you’re thinking, you put your hand on your chin. You’re dead. Somebody already took the deal.

Toby: You have to be ready to strike when the opportunity presents itself. People don’t even realize that they had the opportunity.

Joey: With nothing to hold you back and without even a split-second thought. My bags are packed from the last trip. I washed the clothes and repacked them, and my toiletries case sits on my bathroom table. It’s there. I shave out of it. I work out of it. If the phone rings, I am literally able to zip up that […] bag, throw it in my suitcase, get in the car, and go to the airport.

I’ve done that many, many times. I’ve flown to Europe, got off the plane, had a breakfast meeting in the morning, a lunch meeting in the afternoon, and a dinner meeting at 5:00 PM, and got on a flight back at 7:00 PM to come back home. You can’t let the grass grow beneath your feet.

Toby: It’s called dedication and commitment. Sometimes, we ignore that part.

For all the fans out there, where is Manowar headed now? Where’s your music headed now? I know you were doing some pretty cool stuff on the most recent recordings. It seems like you’re always changing it up. It’s never just the same thing over and over again. For all your fans, where is Manowar headed?

Joey: As you know, we have a new guitarist in the band. He’s one of the most famous guitarists in the world. His name is Michael Angelo Batio. I’m sure a lot of people that do watch your podcast, Toby, will know who he is.

Those who don’t, you’ve got to look him up. If for nothing more than to watch, this guy who’s completely ambidextrous plays two guitars and two different things with two different hands. He also has a guitar with four necks, and he spins it around. He’s got two necks this way then two necks on the bottom. He just looks like a hydra of some sort or an octopus.

With somebody like that in the band, it’s a real kick in the ass for somebody like myself to stand on stage next to this guy and have to rise as best I can to his level of virtuosity.

That’s a great inspiration for myself and also the rest of the band. New blood brings new energy but different energy because he’s an individual. What he brings to the band is not just speed, but he’s a personality.

We also have a new drummer who is now just starting to really get comfortable with the fact that he’s in the band and has done a tour and so forth, so we’re expecting even greater things from him.

There’s just a new energy, a new dynamic, and a lot of fun. I guess this is just another chapter in the book of Manowar musically.

Toby: We’re excited to read and see it. I’m going to wish you great luck on your tour. I can’t end without asking. You did get the world record for the world’s loudest band, right?

Joey: Only because I was foolish enough to spend the money and the time to research how to break the record so that no one would ever be foolish enough to spend that money and put in that time and effort scientifically to be in it a couple of times.

Toby: You still have it though.

Joey: Yeah. I was incensed because somebody beat our record. I think they had an uncle that owned a music store. They hooked up everything in the music store. I thought that was cheating because they didn’t really own their equipment.

Toby: You got to do it in a stadium. You got to do it in a live set.

Joey: It doesn’t matter where you do it. You should own the equipment, and it should be the equipment that you perform with live, not rented as a stunt. I’m funny like that, sorry.

Toby: I still love it. I had another client who just broke a world record for the number of bungee jumps off of a bridge, and she did it within an hour. I think it was some ridiculous number like 20 jumps.

Joey: How cool. We also have the record for the longest heavy metal concert. We played 5 hours of I think 10 or 11 sets in Bulgaria.

Toby: How do your fingers feel after that? That’s the only thing that I could think of.

Joey: Sweaty. It was probably 150 degrees in Bulgaria. It was a beautiful night for it though. We just had so much fun. The crowd kept screaming. We just kept playing little by little. They’re like, play another song.

Toby: That’s the beautiful thing though. You were probably in what everybody would call the zone. You’re just loving it. Nothing else matters. You’re in your element.

You could probably do that in your bedroom if you’re really in love with your music and you’re doing those types of things. Whatever it is that you did, I think you’re making it.

Joey: That’s right. When you’re invested in it, it’s in you, and you’re in it, all of a sudden, it takes on a life of its own.

Toby: Absolutely. I really appreciate your time, Joey. People need to go check out Manowar. It’s probably the greatest band that you’ve ever heard of.

If you’re a metalhead, you know who they are. If you’re listening to pop music and you haven’t heard of them yet, go out there and listen to it because they have a really cool community and a really great following. It’s going to be people you never realized who love that type of music too. It’s the real deal. You don’t have to wonder whether this is some new band or something. This is decades of experience coming through from a true artist at the top of his game. Thanks, Joey, for coming.

Joey: Thank you for inviting me. This has been a lot of fun. I was really excited to get the invitation. What can I say? I’m glad that you appreciate what we do.

Certainly, I’m a huge fan of you and your company and what you do. As I said before, I am very, very thankful that I learned early on that you really have to embrace the business aspect of what you’re doing in order to fully enhance and control what you’re doing.

If I play at a festival and I determined that we have to double or triple the PA system to make sure everybody can hear it with the same quality as they would hear it in their living room if they had a $50,000 stereo, then I’m able to do it because I’m in control of it. I think that’s a really important thing. That in itself is a gift.

Toby: It’s authentic. It’s you. It’s your name out there, and I think that having that control just shows that you actually value it. I worry about the people out there that give up that control.

Joey: I think sooner or later, you’ll get it back. We’ve all gone through different phases with bad record deals as an example. Sooner or later, it ends, and you’re better off for it. You’ve learned and you’ve grown. If you can take it that way, you become stronger and smarter, and you don’t become bitter because you embrace the knowledge.

Going back to martial arts, I used to have an instructor that would go to every city, and he would want to spar with the instructor. I used to say to him, well, aren’t you afraid you’re going to get your ass kicked by this guy? He would say, no, I’m hoping that he will kick my ass so I can thank him and say, can you please show me what I did wrong on those three different times when you hit me here or hit me there? He goes, I want to learn from these guys. I would have even more respect for the guy if he did.

Toby: That’s what we should be doing in all of our businesses. You’re going out there to look to find the pain points so you can improve and get better.

Joey: Absolutely. Eternal students all the way.

Toby: Hundred percent. Thanks, Joey, for coming on.

Joey: My pleasure. Thank you, Toby.