Why Invest in Multi-Family and Why Now

Jen: You did. Perfect.

Toby: Here’s the thing. We’ve known these folks for a long time. They’ve worked with our firm for years. I just love inviting people that are really good at what they do. Jen and Stacey, they’re in the multifamily realm. I just want to say welcome guys. It’s a pleasure to have you guys here to interview.

Stacy: Thank you for having us, Toby.

Jen: Thank you, Toby.

Toby: All right, let’s dive in. What I really want to focus on is the three roles that are out there in multifamily, how somebody gets into it, what they should be avoiding and all that. Can you give us the thumbnail sketch of the multifamily world right now? What are the investment opportunities? What are the three roles? Just give it to us all. A lot of meat.

Jen: A lot of meat. There’s a lot of meat in this. There are a lot of people who think that if they want to get into multifamily, that they’ve got to be able to do it all. One of the things that we figured out over the years and what we teach is that there are really three roles. If you identify as being really solid in a skill set in one of those roles, then you would make what we call a whole team.

The first role is acquisitions manager, second role is capital raiser, and the third role is asset manager. An acquisitions manager is just somebody who’s really like a freak in the spreadsheets. They like numbers, they like to look at trends. They like to look at the market and identify what’s really good about this market, what are all of the compelling reasons, what is the evidence that this is a solid market, and what does this deal look like specifically.

So they’re just really good with numbers. They’re really good with numbers and they can generate a pro forma. They can look at budgets. They’re just really good with that stuff.

A capital raiser, on the other hand, is somebody who got to know the numbers, they have to understand them, they have to be able to make key distinctions about those numbers and what to do with it, and when we might stub our toe. They are in charge of going out and really just being investor relations people. They’re really good with people.

They’re good at providing an opportunity to people for a return on their investment, and showing them the deal, but really handling it as a long-term relationship. They bring the capital into the deal, so that we can close the deal.

Asset manager is the one who is going to look at the entire thing. We’ve got the acquisitions manager that put and underwrote that deal, and now the asset manager looks at the pro forma, looks at how we are going to put this in play.

They’re really good at project management. They’re really, really good at increasing the top line, and also reducing any expenses that might be there. They’re also good with numbers, but they’re good at projecting and actually taking the projections and implementing the plan.

Being able to say, we’ve got this 96-unit here and 45 of these units are already really renovated and they’re market-ready. But we’ve got these other 41 units that we’ve really got to get through and turn it around to get it up to market rents, and these other ones are already stabilized. They come up with the plan on when we are going to be spending this capital to do these renovations so that we meet what we told our investors we were going to do to perform.

Now, if you take all three of those roles and roll it into this big ball, and you think, God, I got to know how to do it all, it usually tends to keep people stuck so that they won’t move forward. But when you dissect it and you identify these three roles and which one appeals to you and your skillset, it really just unleashes possibility in you. That’s why we lead with that. The three roles are just so clear. Then forming a team so they can go do at least 2–3 deals a year together.

Toby: So multi-family isn’t, hey, I want to invest in this. I’m going to go do it. everything. And it’s like buying a single family resident. I’m going to rent it. You’re basically saying, stop just for a second. Figure out where your skill set is and what your role could be, and then find a team to join. Is that accurate?

Jen: Absolutely.

Stacy: One of the things when we’re teaching our students is, you need to understand the whole process from start to finish. One of the things that will keep people dead in their tracks is recognizing as they’re learning, here are all the pieces. There are going to be certain ones or multiple areas where they’re like, oh, I’m not going to be terrible at that or I’m afraid of that, and then they just don’t move forward at all because somewhere in the process there’s something.

Firm belief that everybody should know, should understand the whole thing. It’s a lot less overwhelming when you’re going to go in by your first 15- or 20-unit building, to know that you don’t have to be great at every single thing. If you can really focus on the areas that you’re so good at, and you find two other people.

If it’s a small building, you probably could fulfill the 3 roles with 2 people in a small building. But you start getting into 40–45-plus units, it is usually going to be 3 people just because of the amount of work there is. But recognizing or knowing it all or at least be familiar with it all, but then you get to focus on where you soar and everybody moves forward faster, and it’s awesome.

Toby: I wish I had a nickel for every time there was somebody out there who was a good promoter. But at the end of the day, they just couldn’t, like you would ask them questions and they couldn’t do the financials, or as the deal progressed, two or three years into it, they just didn’t have the answers to the questions and things were following through the cracks.

Maybe they were worried about their management and all that fun stuff, and it’s probably because they were trying to wear too many hats. Is that what some of you guys have seen?

Jen: That’s definitely something we’re seeing.

Stacy: Definitely.

Jen: When you have some clear delineation on roles and responsibilities, it just makes it a lot smoother, and everybody knows their role.

Toby: It’s interesting. Multifamily right now, what would you say the state of multifamily is like? Where are the opportunities? Where are the pitfalls? We’ve all heard about debt coming due and all that stuff. How real is it and how bad is it going to be?

Jen: I know that I have my opinions for sure. I don’t know, but I just […] a lot. But I feel like there’s nothing but opportunity that’s coming. We really have to tell the story. It goes all the way back to 2008 when it came down to this housing crisis, and they started printing money. Then they started printing money again during COVID. And when you print money, that leads to inflation. Then the next thing you know, you see all the interest rates rising.

The thing is that back in about 2020 when everybody was trying to get deals to pencil out, they weren’t working very well. They ended up going with floating rate debt. That’s what we’re about to face. These interest rates spike them faster than they ever have in 40 years. And the Fed, they’re still very speculative. They’re […] on whether or not there’s any more coming. It feels like it’s a moving target.

But even over here, we still get to face the fact that anybody who bought a rate cap back then, they’re coming on expiration. That’s when we’re going to see a lot of people that are just there’s the keys, and then there’s opportunity, or they might be able to raise enough capital to try to save it. But I just don’t see that that’s happening because of the financing.

Toby: Now, you’re looking at another two years to see interest rates really come down. Again, if they do what Wall Street expects, but the Fed does its own thing. Personally, I think we’re in for a long pause. I think that they might pause interest rate hikes, but the economy is still robustly growing, which means usually you’re raising interest rates.

Stacy: Our economy has been defying gravity for years now.

Jen: I agree. The interesting thing that I see is that in these markets where they were using that floating rate debt, they are very good markets. You’re going to see these assets, that they’re very good assets, and they’re also in great markets that were very high transactional markets. That makes it even more juicy for me.

Toby: And that means that a good group could go in and create a great asset that might be working at a 4 % loan, the numbers when they bought it. Now, it’s at a 7% loan and now it doesn’t work. All of a sudden, it’s negative. You’re picking it up and maybe you’re, I don’t know what the money is, but if you’re able to come in cash, obviously you’re the beneficiary of all that hard work. You get to come in and plug and play.

Is that what your group is doing, is you’re trying to marry these three roles together, put people together, and go find these deals?

Stacy: Sort of, beyond just what’s happening right now. Our academy has been running for four years now, and when the market was very competitive, our whole thing is you have to underwrite the deal.

We don’t have a single person in our academy that’s facing any foreclosure, even though there’s this massive foreclosure wave coming, because we’ve been switching. We’ve been expecting this for a long time. Frankly, it’s shocking that it took as long as it did to correct.

Anyway, one of the main adjustments that we made years ago that we’ve told our students to make and especially now, is when you’re looking at underwriting deals, you’re looking for stuff that whatever the interest rate is, that it works.

For example, we have a 48-unit that we are working on right now raising capital for, and that 48-unit is going to be (I think) we originally underwrote it at 7¼. It’s still work. It’s a great cash flow deal. Still was a good solid cash flow deal. But because we hadn’t rate-locked yet, now it’s looking like it’s going to be 6.9. It’s going to be even better.

But the whole thing is, when we’re teaching our students don’t be in such a rush to just get a deal, you have to think that this is going to be a long-term thing. Although over the past many years until interest rates started rising, the most popular strategy, especially for large syndications, was the value add. It’s okay that it doesn’t cash flow. It’s okay that it’s negative cash flow for multiple years because you’re going to make so much money in the end.

Unfortunately, not only is that not going to happen, a lot of people are going to lose their entire investment because the operators are going to lose the property because of the floating rate debt.

One of the things that we’ve been really preaching to our community is, look, there’s nothing wrong with value add. We love value add. But just make sure from day one, it’s cash flowing at today’s interest rates. And you know what? If rates come down, and I don’t think it’s going to be less than two years, we will not look at any deals that are less than five. Three year deals were like, nope. I want it to be lower in three years, but I don’t know. We’re conservative. We went through 2008. We know. There’s a lot you can’t predict.

But I think that’s one of the main things that we’re teaching our students. It isn’t so much go to those markets, specifically. We’ll let them know there are great markets that are available. You could probably pick up properties for, I would say pennies on the dollar, but those banks loaned at probably 60%–65% loan-to-value.

When the bank takes it back, that’s all that they have to cover. That other 30%–35%, that’s going to be the loss from the investors. The banks are willing to let them go, close to what they have, and people are going to come in and be able to get it at a much lower price than they bought it 3–4 years ago.

Jen: The short of it, Toby, we have somebody who generates a list for us quarterly of the markets that we think are good. We’ll have some that are in that high performing hot market, the Phoenix, the Tampas, the Houstons. That and then we’ll have the middle of the country market, which we also love because your capital goes further and the cash flow. It’s a mix, and then we do. We absolutely direct them that, hey, here’s the list. Go check out these markets and go get some deals.

Toby: It’s like 2008. I don’t know how active you guys were, but when we were going in there and we’re putting out offers on properties, everybody and their mother now would realize this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and you’re trying to do short sales and stuff.

That’s not really the case here. There’s equity in these properties. You’re walking in and they don’t have a gun to their head saying, hey, you got to dump this. There are just people saying, hey, you know what? I just can’t cover the cash flow, but there’s plenty of equity. They’re going to be coming on to the market, not necessarily completely distressed, but again, plenty of opportunity there for somebody who knows what they’re doing.

Stacy: I think a lot of it’s going to depend, too, on whether the operator has a realistic picture of the value of their assets now. As cap rates have started going up in some markets, the values of the property went down. It’s them marrying up, how long can I carry this property with this negative cash flow once because their rate went up, and timing it so they could sell it and hopefully keep some of their equity. That’s going to be an interesting thing to see.

The other thing that Jen and I have really been focusing on this year, was it two? three deals that have been seller financing. We’ve always liked seller financing, but especially right now where people have low interest loans, not variable ones, like fixed low interest loans from the past several years, they’re just looking to be done with it and there’s value add.

We’ve found there’s a lot of opportunity in multi-family, specifically with seller financing and looking for the sellers that are just usually self-managing, so they’re all burned out. They’re ready to be done, but they like the cash flow.

We have a 13-unit, was a storage that we’re closing on. We closed on a 96-unit earlier this year, and it was seller financed. We’re able to take advantage of a previous loan that was low interest rate. It ends up being like a win-win.

Toby: Are you taking it subject to or you’re assuming that loan?

Stacy: No, neither. Well, in our academy, we’ve had every single type of transaction. On the 96 unit, it was a super creative deal. It was effectively like a wrap-around mortgage. In practice, it was a little bit more complicated. We ended up having to take over part of an entity. There are a lot of lawyers involved in that one.

The crux of it was the seller’s existing underlying mortgage is still there, and then we bought it for more than him, so they have a loan that wraps around that. Even his bankers were involved in this. That’s what we did was a wrap-around mortgage.

On the one that we’re buying, that we’re closing on January 3rd, originally it was going to be a land contract. I’ve been talking to […] 89 years old, super sharp business guy, but realistically he’s like, well, I’m 89. He owns it in the trust, and he’s like, look, I just want the cash flow.

He has no mortgage on it, but he was willing to do a 5% loan, 30-year amortization for 7 years. That one’s a really good cash flow deal. It’s in a market that’s not going to see a lot of appreciation. It will make some money on it on depreciation, but it’s mostly we’re just going to have cash flow coming in every month for the next seven years once we close that.

But it wouldn’t have penciled that way at all if we had to go through bank financing. It would have been a skinny deal, probably not that attractive. We would have passed on it. It was only because he was willing to do seller financing. It made it not just a good deal. It’s a great deal. I love seller financing. It’s my favorite.

Toby: Good for him because they’re carrying and spreading out the tax liability, people don’t realize.

Stacy: That’s this whole reason. When I said, thank you for offering to do it this way, because we’re excited about buying this property, he said, well, thank you for being willing to buy it this way, because no, I’m not going to get killed on taxes.

Toby: Yeah, he’s going to recapture in the first year, but he’s probably owned it for a while, right?

Stacy: Actually, only five years. Not that long.

Toby: Like Jen said, they printed out a lot of money. And what do they do? $4.1 trillion. They’ve been tightening it. They’ve been pretending that the interest rate increases are bringing down inflation, but they’ve been tightening currency. I’m there with you.

As soon as you said that, I’m like, you’re looking at M2 money supply and looking at the CPI. They’re identical. They go up right into hand of them, like they’re tightening. They really don’t need to raise interest rates. That’s all for show in my personal opinion.

Hey, speaking of show, I want to change gears a little bit. First off, how do people find your academy? What is it? And how do they find whether or not multifamily is something that they should be doing?

Jen: The best place would be our website, which is rmfiacademy.com, which stands for Remote Multifamily Investing Academy. That’d be the best place to go look for the academy.

Toby: Okay, we’ll put that in the show notes to make sure. I wanted to make sure I got that out there because you mentioned the academy. I’m always one of those guys that’s like, you could go to every different type of educational course and it doesn’t hurt you. It’s always gold nuggets out there that you find.

And if you’re looking for multi-family, don’t just go to one person. You really do want to be part of a group where you’re working with others that have done it—been there, done it, have that t-shirt—because there are lots of holes you can fall, and they just want to don’t go over there, don’t go over there, don’t go over there. You just want to work with people like Jen and Stacy to make sure.

But I wanted to talk about something, Jen. I think you do the neuro-linguistic programming and things like that. A lot of people don’t realize how much of our behavior is affected by that, the seven inches in between your ears. How much does that come into play, especially when you’re teaching people to get involved?

Jen: It’s 80%. It’s literally Pareto. So 80% of everything that you do is mindset. Whether it’s multi-family investing, taxes, whatever, owning a business, it’s all 80% mental, and 20% of it is the logistics, the how, and the action that you take.

We’re all human beings. What happens is, in the fiber of our bodies and our being, we just want to get as close as we can and stay as close as we can to what’s familiar, 9 times out of 10. Familiarity, it keeps us stuck because then we want to do the mundane, the boring because it makes us feel safe, it makes us feel certain.

When people come into the academy, they come in as human beings. They want to go do those things, and they’re really excited about it. Then as soon as they hit that first challenge where they can’t seem to get a deal under contract or whatever the first challenge is for them, they start to have doubt sink in. Then they start to revert back and withdraw to the old self, the old habits, the old beliefs of, I can’t do this. I’ll never figure this out.

What’s crazy is that we don’t realize how often we do that. We’re really good at what we do. You’re a subject matter expert in your current role, and then you want to come learn something new. Well, it took you a long time to learn the thing that you’re an expert in now, but you forget. Just like childbirth, you forget what it took to get to that level.

I’m always telling our students, the first 90 days is the roughest. It’s the hardest. We send you into the coliseum with a shield and a sword and we say, go get them. They run in there all excited to go get their first deal, and then they realize, oh my God. My first opponent is actually myself.

They do a lot of work to make sure that they don’t withdraw and go back to what’s familiar. You got to lean in and find out why this is a must for you. That’s what I’m always bringing them back to. When they first come in, they got to do the exercise of, why is it a must for you, multifamily? Why must you do this? What are all the reasons why? And get them associated to that why.

So the first time I hit a challenge, they remember why they started and then they don’t give up. It’s usually when we don’t associate with a strong, compelling reason that gives us leverage over ourselves, when we don’t do that, we quit.

There are five reasons why most people quit. The very first one, the domino, is the wrong motivation. When you have the right motivation and you’re moving towards it, you won’t lean back. You won’t go to what’s familiar. You want to go into the unknown and rise up to the level of skill that your goals demand.

Toby: Do you work on this in your workshops then? Is that something that you guys are doing, is helping people get clarity as to why? Like what they’re trying to accomplish, what they want to do?

Jen: Absolutely. We have a quarterly event. It’s called WoWCon. When people come to it, the first two days are usually all about real estate, and there’s a transformational day on day three.

In the first two days, what we do is we help them like Hogwarts and Harry Potter with a sorting hat. Which role is yours? Are you an asset manager, an acquisitions manager, a capital raiser? Once they’ve decided that, I lead them through an identity rewiring, actually. They step forward into that identity in full power and certainty.

So we definitely tune them up at that event. We get them associated to their why, we get them in that role that they identify with the most that serves their skills, and then I really just rewire them on day three.

Then we do something really crazy to seal the deal. They either break a one inch board with their hands, or if they’re lucky two times a year, we break a 40-pound arrow that could kill a grizzly bear with our throats. That’s when people are really like, oh my God, I just broke this arrow. I can do anything.

For whatever reason, the arrow break is the most significant. A lot of people will just break a board no problem, but when they see that arrow, that’s very transformational. They step into that new identity like there’s no stopping them, and that is fun for us. We love that part.

We tell them what the roles are, we help them identify what role is for them, then we wire them into that identity. That’s what the event’s all about. It’s pretty cool.

Toby: All right, so this question’s for Stacy. People coming through, what are your favorite success stories that you’ve seen from folks that have come through the academy?

Stacy: My passion has always been for the super new person who’s never done a multi-family at all, they’re nervous, they’re analytical, they’re in their own way and and all those things.

My favorite success stories, which we tend to attract that person anyway, so almost all of our stories are success stories of that, but really it’s for the person that comes in and they’ve always wanted to do it. They just kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off, until they finally had enough. Then they come in and they’ll go through the course.

All of our students have a one-on-one coach, group coaching, the events and all that. They have every level of support. I don’t care if it’s just their first 8-unit building or their first 5-unit building or 20 units. Most people’s first deal when they come in, when they’re really, really scared is somewhere between 8 and 15 units. But when someone crosses that threshold to that first closing, it’s incredible.

I’m going to use Teni as an example. When we first started the apartment program, there’s this guy, Teni. He’s from Nigeria. I mean he’s from the United States, but he’s originally from Nigeria. He came here and he’s working. He bought a couple of duplexes in his home market. He’s just like, man, I really want to be able to scale into apartments.

He’s extremely analytical, which I get because my background is a CPA and I’m very analytical, which means you ask a bazillion questions. You want to analyze everything to death and never actually make a move. That’s where he was. He’s like, I need to be able to scale, but the numbers don’t work where I live to do apartments. I need to be able to do it remotely.

He was in his way. He was one of our first ones that I love to see him go through it. It took him longer than most people to close that first deal. It was probably six months to close that first deal. It was just a little six-unit building. It was in Hartford, Connecticut, he lived in Indiana, and he had so much trouble getting that deal to the finish line.

Every deal is challenging. It’s always challenging in some random way. No matter what, you always have to raise your level. But he kept having challenge after challenge. I remember him saying, Stacy, my realtor is going to kill me. She hates my guts. I just know it. I was like, Teni, she doesn’t eat your guts. He’s like, I can’t get the bank to close, my mortgage broker…

He was so frustrated and so stressed out. I was like, this is just how it is. It’s the best part of the game. You’re doing everything right. Just keep going. Do not give up.

Anyway, he finally got it closed. It was the longest closing ever. He got it closed and he went to sleep for 24 hours. He slept for 24 hours and he’s like, I can’t believe I finally closed that.

He’s like, I know my realtor is never going to talk to me ever ever again. I was like, let’s make a bet right now. I guarantee you anything you’re going to hear back from her in the next month with another deal. He’s like, no way. No possible way. She hates my guts. It took so long to close. I’m like, no. You are a closer. You don’t understand, but you’re a rare commodity.

Tons of people want multi-family real estate, but they don’t know what they’re doing. So they literally can’t get it across the finish line. You did. Two weeks later, she brought him another one. Then within 45 days, he closed it.

It’s a story after story of that first 10-, 11-, 15-, 24-unit. I love watching our students scaling. We’ve had multiple students that are with us for 3 years now and they’re on to 100 unit buildings, but they started with a 10-unit.

It started with a dupe when we were really early on. We were teaching 2–4 units when the interest rates were better than that made sense, but some of them started with their very first duplex and it was still just as scary for them. But they broke through their own limiting beliefs. They got the confidence. They got confidence from actually showing themselves that they could do it.

Jen’s right. Their first obstacle is them. Once they do it to get confidence, then they have credibility also with brokers and lenders.

Anyway, my favorite success stories are always that first deal, because it’s what opens the floodgates for their whole life. And it’s not just real estate.

Jen: My favorite part about the Teni story was just the identity he needed to step into. I told him, you need to be spicier. He was not being assertive enough. I literally shipped him a bottle of Tabasco sauce to put on his desk, so that he would symbolize, oh, yeah, I got to get spiced. It helped him get through it. But yeah, I did. I sent him Tabasco sauce. That’s great.

Stacy: That’s right.

Toby: That’s awesome. It sounds like you guys have a cool community, and that’s what it really takes. People don’t realize. At the end of the day, a lot of people want to be wealthy. A lot of people want to do multi-family. A lot of people want to do a lot of things. That and 25 cents might get you a cup of water. You actually have to put it into action and get that team that’s going to push you and get you to actually be part of that group that actually does it.

I think you were spot on, Stacy, when you said that with the realtors, a lot of realtors spend a lot of their time wasting time with people who are like, I want to do multifamily. And then as soon as they get resistance, they walk away.

Well, here’s somebody who finished. You’re one of that 1% of those people who does what they say they’re going to do. All of a sudden, you’re going to have everybody knocking down your door saying, you’re one of those people. You’re a closer.

Stacy: And it’s hard for them to get that first deal because all of the realtors who’ve been burned over the years by new investors. It’s the hardest for new investors to get that first deal because you’re not only overcoming yourself. You’re overcoming the credibility factor on the other end.

It’s nice for people to be able to say, oh, what we’ve done is, and the “we” will be somebody else in the academy. Or we’ll say, look. Just tell them that we recently closed a blank deal. We’ll say, use our deal. They don’t have to know who the “we” is.

But no matter what, it’s hard for them to even get deal flow when they’re new, no less actually close it. It’s a big mountain to climb, but once it’s done, it’s like the whole world opens up.

It doesn’t mean real estate’s easy. It’s not easy. It never will be. It’s challenging. But that first one, if you can just get through it, oh my God, the second one is infinitely easier. And you know you can do it because you’ve done it. You’ve already proven it to yourself.

Toby: Yup. It’s definitely worth it. But it’s going to take effort and you need to have a good team.

All right, guys. I’m going to ask you. Each of you takes one question. Why multifamily? Why now?

Stacy: Okay, I’ll go with that why multifamily. We’ve done every kind of real estate. We’ve been doing this for over 20 years. We’ve done picks and flips, single family rentals, new construction, small multi-family, large multifamily.

When I look at everything, one who is a big fan of, I think you called it infinity investing, like continuing to reinvest and build long-term generational legacy building wealth and cash flow. So that if stuff goes wrong, you still have money coming in.

Rentals, in and of itself, I’ve always been a fan of because it’s the long-term wealth building. Multi-family (to me) has a lot lower risk, financial risk than single family.

We only own a couple of single families left in our portfolio, but the couple of single families we have, it’s always on my mind. If that tenant moves out, we are covering the entire mortgage, taxes, insurance, utilities, property management, out of pocket because there’s no one else to cover it if that tenant leaves.

Whereas even a duplex, a new triplex, 20 units, 100 units, it spreads out the financial risk, so that if somebody loses a job or moves out unexpectedly, you’re not like, oh my God, going into savings to try to pull it out.

So multi-family for me is just really about cash flow coming in and then keeping it going long term, so that you have options. Basically, you have options. You could live the life that you want to live instead of being forced to show up at a job every day.

Everybody has to do that in the beginning, but it’s nice to have the option of when you’ve built enough, that you could actually leave if you wanted to.

Jen: Yeah, and for me, multi-family because, well, for all the reasons that Stacey just said, but also because if there’s one thing that I learned from 2008, it’s that people always need somewhere to live.

There are the Gen Zs of the world, the millennials of the world. They are not buying that American drinking the Kool-Aid dream of you’ve got to buy your own house. They would rather rent. That tells me right now, okay, even though there’s a housing shortage, the two biggest generations that are pretty equivalent to the baby boomers, they want to rent. They don’t want to go buy a house. They’d rather buy assets that pay them. I’m all about that.

The other reason that I would say multifamily is because not just the passive income. But when there’s that much opportunity out there, and those two generations want to rent and they always have to have somewhere to live, to me, that’s more steady than the stock market.

There’s a lot of volatility in the stock market. But right now, most importantly, the qualified buying pool for homes is so low based on the interest rates and everything that’s going on. People are having to rent. Even if they didn’t have two generations that prefer to rent, people are not going to be able to buy homes. To me, it’s always multifamily all day long. Build your wealth in multifamily and then diversify in other asset classes once you have that wealth established.

Toby: Fair enough. I think you guys laid out a good case to do multifamily and a good path forward. Again, how does somebody find you? Again just throw your website out there and tell them what they should do, like not just go to your website, but is there a course that they should join in? Is there a way that they can plug in? Is there a newsletter? Is there some way that they can continue to follow you guys?

Stacy: We have a resource page that has eight or nine of our master classes, just so people can get some foundational knowledge. That’s a great place to go to just start to get a background. If it’s something that you’re like, I want to learn more, I want to check out your academy, then you’re welcome to book a call at the bottom of it.

If nothing else, at least start to lay the foundation. Don’t let years go by before you get in the game because there’s so much opportunity. You got to ignore the news. They get paid to scare people. That doesn’t serve your long-term wealth building in the least. bit.ly/jenandstacy. That will take you to a page where you can just learn. If there’s something we can do to serve you or help you, then feel free to reach out.

Toby: Well, Jane and Stacy, it’s been a pleasure talking to you guys, and I hope that people actually do something and take some action. I appreciate the fact that you guys are educators and that you came on. Certainly, I learned something. I listened to you guys. I learned something and I hope that everybody else did, too.

Stacy: Thanks for having us, Toby.

Jen: Thank you, Toby.