Today, Anderson Advisors attorneys Toby Mathis, Esq., and Eliot Thomas, Esq., discuss topics including navigating inherited IRAs and potential Roth conversions to understanding crucial deadlines for spousal and non-spousal inheritances. The questions explore filing for trading LLCs with expenses but no income, leveraging C-Corps for medical cost reimbursements, and addressing real estate tax considerations including depreciation recapture. Key insights include combining 1031 exchanges with 121 exclusions when converting investment properties to primary residences, maximizing education and travel deductions in real estate transactions, and utilizing strategic business entities, defined benefit plans, and 401(k)s to shelter active income.

Send your tax questions to [email protected].

Highlights/Topics:

• “Can you roll an inherited IRA into a Roth IRA before the 10 year liquidation time limit is over? If so, will it be a taxable event?” – Typically no, especially for non-spousal inherited IRAs.
• “I took 2024 off, had no W-2 income, and did no trading.” “However, I had some trading expenses, monthly subscriptions. Do I need to file an individual 1040 return and/or Form 1065 for my trading LLC, even though I had no W-2 income and did no trading?” – Yes, file to account for trading expenses.
• “I am in the process of creating a trading partnership with the C-Corp. Due to an accident 20 years ago, I have high medical expenses and want to use the C-Corp to reimburse my out-of-pocket medical expenses. I have caregivers who work three hours per day. Can I reimburse myself for the salary? I pay them through the C-Corp. What other medical expenses can I reimburse?” – Yes, using Section 105 plan for reimbursements.
• “I have short-term rental property managed by a management company. Before the end of the year, I’m taking over management duties. Does the passive income switch to active or does the passive income stay passive?” – No, managing yourself doesn’t change income to active.
• “When selling a rental property, do you have to pay 25% depreciation recapture tax on things that have been depreciated down to zero and have been gone or deleted for over a year?” – Yes, recapture applies to fully depreciated assets.
• “Can I apply both 1031 like-kind exchange and 121 exclusion to an investment property? Yes, with strategic planning for property transitions.
• “Can I sell my investment home, apply 1031, and make the replacement home my primary residence?”
• “When selling my primary residence, do seller concession expenses help stay within the $250,000 capital gain exclusion? Example, help buyer with closing costs, any repairs, et cetera. I have spent over $3000.” – No, concessions don’t impact the exclusion directly.
• “I have spent over $3000 on different online real estate education programs. Can I deduct these as business expenses, or are only education expenses that are not online deductible?” – They are deductible only if related to continuing existing business education.
• “I attend a lot of investor’s meetings in person, travel with my personal not business automobile. How can I deduct these costs as business expenses,” – Track mileage and use accountable plans for deductions.
• “How do I save on taxes when wholesaling properties?” – Use business entities and retirement plans strategically.

Resources:

Schedule Your FREE Consultation
Tax and Asset Protection Events
Anderson Advisors
Toby Mathis YouTube
Toby Mathis TikTok
Clint Coons YouTube

Full Episode Transcript:

Toby: All right. Hopefully you’re looking for Tax Tuesday, because if you are, you’re in the right place. My name’s Toby Mathis.

Eliot: I’m Eliot Thomas.

Toby: And today we’re going to be bringing you tax knowledge to the masses. So we’re going to dive into this. We’re in a different studio today. I’m looking at different screens, and now I can see some things. Look at this. This is perfect. Everything’s working.

Eliot: It is.

Toby: All right, let’s go through this. Hey, we have some rules. You didn’t know that you were coming into a place that had really strict rules. Number one is you could ask questions. You can go into chat and make comments. Right now, there are some people. Somebody said, howdy you all from Raleigh. I think it’s Raleigh. There’s Sherry saying hello.

If you put something into chat, we could see it. But if you have specific questions that you want to get answered, we have a full team. Let me just look at this. I got Isaiah, Patty, Arash, Dutch, Jared, Jeffrey, Jennifer, Marie, Tanya, Troy. Holy shmoly. Let me see if there’s even more. Nope, that’s it. We got a whole team of accountants to answer your questions.

If you’re on YouTube, you can ask questions and somebody’s answering them there too. So this is a lot of fun. Are these sessions recorded and available anywhere? I think so.

Eliot: Yes, they’re recorded.

Toby: They are recorded. We shared out with you and yeah, you can come watch it. So yeah, we got a whole crew.

Eliot: For better or worse, they’re recorded.

Toby: John says, “Rule number one, don’t follow the rules.” All right. Hey, could you put in chat what city and state you’re in? So that we can make sure that we know where all of you are sitting? It’s always fun. I like to see whether we get all the coast.

We got Seattle, Orange County, Boston, Miami. We got Seattle and Miami. Then we got that. Now we got Huntington Beach, Atlanta, Denver, Apple Valley, Minnesota, New York, stress in New York City, Virgin. Oops, people. Republic of New York, Texas, Utah, near Princeton, New Jersey, St. Petersburg, Florida. Where’s my Hawaii? I always have some Hawaii. We need some mahalo. Let’s see. Virgin, Princeton. I would be shocked if we don’t have somebody from Hawaii.

Houston, Auburn. Auburn, California. There are a bunch of… there we go. I don’t know if we have Hawaii. We don’t have any Hawaii today. Timing now. Port of Vallarta.

Eliot: There it is.

Toby: Oh, I’m in Maui, but I’m currently in Virginia. Do we have anybody sitting on one of the islands? Not the Ninth Island because that’s where we’re sitting. We’re in Vegas right now. All right, let’s dive in.

You got questions during the week, you send them to [email protected]. Eliot here looks at them, answers them. Everybody’s not in Hawaii is saying, Well, sometimes I’m in Hawaii.

Eliot: Why would you ever leave?

Toby: I know. I want to go to Hawaii. I got Hawaii on the brain. All right. But if you ask questions, Eliot here answers them, his team. Then also, he picks questions every week that then we answer live, and that’s what we’re going to be doing. We’re going to go over these questions, I’m going to read them out, and then we’re going to go back and answer them. Actually, Eliot’s going to answer them. We’re going to answer them for you. Let’s just go through what the questions are, then we’ll answer.

There we go. Dolores is in Honolulu. Thank you. We always have somebody from Hawaii, so fantastic. Welcome Dolores. That’s a beautiful island. I love Diamond Head. I love Ka’ena. The whole island is beautiful. And they have the, where’s the space place? That’s on the end of that road and there’s the Space Force. We have a Space Force in the United States, and it’s really cool.

Anyway, “Can you roll an inherited IRA into a Roth IRA before the 10 year liquidation time limit is over? If so, will it be a taxable event?” Good question.

“I took 2024 off, had no W-2 income, and did no trading.” Sounds like you really did take the year off. “However, I had some trading expenses, monthly subscriptions. Do I need to file an individual 1040 return and/or Form 1065 for my trading LLC, even though I had no W-2 income and did no trading?” Interesting question. We’ll dive into that one.

“I am in the process of creating a trading partnership with the C-Corp. Due to an accident 20 years ago, I have high medical expenses and want to use the C-Corp to reimburse my out-of-pocket medical expenses. I have caregivers who work three hours per day. Can I reimburse myself for the salary? I pay them through the C-Corp. What other medical expenses can I reimburse?” Great questions, and that’ll be a really interesting answer, by the way.

“I have short-term rental property managed by a management company. Before the end of the year, I’m taking over management duties. Does the passive income switch to active or does the passive income stay passive?” Really good question, and you’re making it rather presumptuous there, so we’ll talk about that too.

“When selling a rental property, do you have to pay 25% depreciation recapture tax on things that have been depreciated down to zero and have been gone or deleted for over a year?” We’ll go over that too.

“Can I apply both 1031 like-kind exchange and 121 exclusion to an investment property? Can I sell my investment home, apply 1031, and make the replacement home my primary residence?” You picked these.

Eliot: I did.

Toby: You’re getting into all some crazy stuff.

Eliot: They asked.

Toby: Yes. “When selling my primary residence…” There are a lot of people selling their primary residences. I’m assuming you’re from DC. See? I said that. No, I’m just kidding. We’re not going to get into that.

Eliot: Not pitching that.

Toby: Yup. “When selling my primary residence, do seller concession expenses help stay within the $250,000 capital gain exclusion? Example, help buyer with closing costs, any repairs, et cetera. I have spent over $3000.” That was a good question, and we’ll answer that. “I have spent over $3000 on different online real estate education programs. Can I deduct these as business expenses, or are only education expenses that are not online deductible?”

I just love the way people just try to, ah, is it only the online ones that you can’t deduct? Because obviously we can deduct all the in-person ones, can’t we? No. We’ll go over that. We’ll give her the rule.

Keep the gloves up. That is right. That is rule number one. Whenever you’re in the ring, defend yourself at all times. I violated that rule when I was a boxer many a time accidentally, and it usually was to my peril. I’d get up a little later going, what did I do? Oh, you lowered your hands. It’s nice when somebody tells you that after the fact.

“I attend a lot of investor’s meetings in person, travel with my personal not business automobile. How can I deduct these costs as business expenses,” good question, “and how do I save on taxes when wholesaling properties?” Lose money? No, just kidding. We’ll get into that. We’re going to have some fun today. Taxes aren’t supposed to be horrifically scary. They’re supposed to be fun. That’s why Eliot makes fun of them all the time.

Speaking of making fun, you can make fun of the stupid faces they have me make to do these thumbnails. Yeah, you guys.

Eliot: This is the best.

Toby: You guys know what you’re doing. Look at this. I’ll give them some poses. There’s literally the same picture of me on two of these. Can you guys get some different pictures of me making stupid faces? But you guys can go out of my YouTube channel. We just hit 1000 videos. Yay. And please subscribe and share it with your friends.

Clint has one, too. Well, he’s making stupid faces too, but he seems to have better stupid faces than mine. If you just compare them, just saying mine, I’m like, and Clint’s like. Look at me. It’s not fair. It’s not right.

Join Clint’s channel as well. It’s more on real estate asset protection. Mine’s more on tax and financial planning. Then we have the tax and asset protection workshop just about every week online, and then we have the in-person event. Eliot’s been to them.

Eliot: Yup. Fantastic.

Toby: You enjoy the in-person events?

Eliot: They are amazing. A lot of activity, a lot of energy. You get to meet the clients. Clients get to meet each other. A lot of synergy. A lot of good deals come out. We always hear from clients who say, and then hear about the later deals that they got into.

Toby: So please join us. We have a live one coming up in Dallas, Texas on March 27th, 28th, and 29th. Then we have a client appreciation day on that Sunday, which we have a cocktail hour on the Saturday, and then we get together and network on the Sunday. We do all sorts of fun stuff. Sometimes we do the 100-day goal setting, sometimes we do the 6 thinking hats, sometimes we go through and analyze a bunch of deals, but we enjoy hanging out together.

If that’s of interest here, I’m just going to do this. Look at that. Tax Tuesday. You get it for $99 for the 3-day event, and then you’ll have to figure out the fourth day. They’ll probably invite you to that once you do that. But super. The coffee’s more expensive than that, guys. We just want you to come and enjoy yourselves. It’s a lot of fun. If you’ve been to a live event put something in chat just so I can say it.

Something’s asked about toilets. All right, that’s a question for Q&A. See? I thought that they were talking about toilets and something we did. I didn’t do anything with toilets today. Well, maybe a couple of things, but we won’t talk about that.

Eliot: I’m not going to talk about it.

Toby: All right. Can you roll an inherited IRA into a Roth IRA before the 10-year liquidation time limit is over? If so, will it be a taxable event?” What do you think?

Eliot: Typically no. Especially if it was a non-spousal inheritance, then you’re limited. You really need to take that 10-year distribution, get it all out by 10 years.

Now once you get those funds, you might do some stuff outside, put it into another Roth or something like that if you have the ability to, or if you have a Solo 401(k) out there without a Roth component or something of that nature. But it will not be the inherited IRA that’s doing.

Now if it is a spousal one, you have a little bit more freedom. But many times it might just depend on exactly whether or not distribution’s been—

Toby: What it really comes down to guys, and I want to make sure that we’re really specific here because if it’s your IRA, you can roll it. When you inherit and you’re the non-spouse of an inherited IRA, it’s the decedent’s IRA, so you cannot convert it. If you’re the spouse, it’s your IRA, so you can convert it.

If you inherit a spousal IRA, you can convert that into a Roth. If it is not a spousal IRA, then you cannot convert those funds, but you could start taking them out and then make other contributions to a Roth. You’ll end up in the same place. You might have to do it over time.

Eliot: Yup, exactly right. You would pay tax on the distributions coming out, but then it’s after-tax money.

Toby: Yup, then you have 10 years to get them out. And somebody’s asking, I don’t know the answer to this, “Do you know minimum distribution rules for an inherited 403(b)? I’m assuming it’s the 10 years?

Eliot: I would think so.

Toby: I think you’re under the same rules. I’m not aware of any exceptions. Somebody says I enjoyed the San Diego meeting. I hope to make it to Las Vegas meeting sometime. Don, it’s always fun in Vegas. Unless you’re losing.

Eliot: Just don’t gamble.

Toby: Yeah. I just don’t gamble because I suck at losing. It bothers me. I’m annoyed even if I lose $20. Everybody says just […] and get a couple of free drinks. I’m like, it’s not free. It’s $20. Yeah, I’m the worst. Don, you and me brother. And it’s just because these casinos are huge. They’re a billion dollars. I didn’t build them because we’re all winning. Newsflash.

“I took 2024 off and had no W-2 income and did no trading.” I’m curious as to what you did for the year.

Eliot: Went to Hawaii.

Toby: Yeah. That’s a good one. You went to Hawaii and sat on a beach, contemplated existence for a year. “However, I had some trading expenses, monthly subscriptions, et cetera. Do I need to file an individual 1040 return and/or Form 1065 for my trading LLC, even though I had no W-2 income and did no trading?”

Eliot: Well, if we want to capture those expenses and you had done them through the LLC or activity within the LLC, then yeah, you’re going to need to file that 1065 to take those deductions. We can’t just push those off to a future year or something like that. And once you file that 1065, it’s going to give off something called a K-1. Form that you receive, it goes through the partners. You’re a partner. That means your 1040 is going to receive that 1040, and therefore you’re going to have to file the 1040 as well.

Toby: Well, okay, I’m going to contradict you a little bit. First off, if you are not engaged in the active trading, so you’re not a trader, which is about 800 trades a year, 70% of the trading days, you’re not entitled to deductions on your individual return.

The only way you would get deductions for those monthly subscriptions is if you had them running through a corporation that was managing an LLC taxed as a partnership. I don’t know if you made any money. It says you did no trading, but did you make money on the investment? Because that money would go and could be used to offset some of the expenses. You still get the expenses at the corporate level—you don’t lose them—but there’s no income to offset if you’re not doing any activity. So they just sit there in the corp and they start to accumulate. You end up with carry forward losses.

If this is just you as a trader, you don’t have to worry about filing. You didn’t have any income. You don’t have an obligation to file a tax return. If you’re below the standard deduction—you’re married filing jointly and you’re below $12,600, so $29,200 if you were married—you don’t have an obligation to file either.

Although I probably still would because the IRS doesn’t know even though you don’t want them coming knocking on your door. But you wouldn’t be able to write-off the trading expenses for a non-trader. It’s just you’re an investor and you didn’t even invest. Maybe you have the money sitting there and it’s making a little bit of interest. You’re not going to get to write off those expenses.

The only way you can write off those expenses is if it’s non-personal, and it’s going to be at the corporate level. The way you get the money into the corporation is via partnership holding those funds. You can’t even pay the corporation a management fee anymore because we don’t have miscellaneous itemized deductions anymore. You really are somewhat limited.

In your situation, it’s like meh. What do we care about the deduction if we didn’t have any income? We only care about the deduction if we have an income to offset. That’s about all I’m going to say on it. Agree or disagree sir?

Eliot: Totally agree.

Toby: Yeah, it’s fun. It gets weird when you get into traders. “If I trade for a proprietary trading firm that pays me via 1099, can I write-off expenses by trading expenses?”

Sean, if you are the trader and it’s other people’s money, then you’re considered a dealer. I think that that’s the term that they use. You’re a trade or business, so yes, you could write-off the expenses associated with that activity.

As for your trading, I think you automatically qualify as a trader, even on your own account if you are a licensed professional. I believe so. But you’re going to grab them on your dealer activity. You’re going to say, hey, this is what I’m doing for a living. I don’t see any other questions that I want to grab.

All right, fun stuff. You guys see how it goes now? We just grab these questions. We you answer them. If this is your first Tax Tuesday, give me a thumbs up. There are a few, so welcome guys. For everybody else, you’ve had to deal with us in our shenanigans, or all Eliot shenanigans.

Eliot: To those, thank you for coming back.

Toby: Yeah, we didn’t just scare you all. There’s a whole bunch of you guys. I’m trying to see how many people are on right now. I guess it’s hundreds, and then there are a bunch on YouTube too. Many hundreds. Many, many, many hundreds from what I can tell. Fantastic. So there are a lot of you all out there.

Somebody asked about FinCEN. Let me go back up. It was a good question and I want to answer this. “Is FinCen filing still required?” No. “My last call this week with an Anderson advisor told me that it was off again rather than it wasn’t going to be enforced. What is Anderson’s official recommendation?”

Here’s what happened. Treasury says we’re not going to enforce it and there are no penalties for not doing it. Could they change? Yeah, the government could. The Treasury could say, no, actually we’re going to enforce it. In the last ruling was that yes, it’s back enforced.

The the case, I’m trying to think of Smith case in Texas was stayed. The injunction was stayed. It’s a fancy way of saying it’s no longer in effect. The Supreme Court had ruled the other case in the Fifth Circuit that Texas top cop shop had. It was staying at the district court level, but they also removed the stay in place, so there was no legal stay. It looks like it’s going to be enforced, which is what I thought it was.

If you guys have watched my videos, you know my position on it has always been it’s going to be constitutional. It might be unconstitutional for a very few. It’s annoying, but they already have your information if you’re small. If you’re filing a tax return on an LLC that’s disregarded. When you got your SS-4, when you got your EIN, you already told them who you were. You’re filing those taxes on your Schedule E on your 1040. Treasury already has your tax return. They just don’t have an easy system that they could go look, so FinCEN was collecting that information. It just ticked off a lot of people.

So the treasury says, we’re not going to enforce this thing, and now Congress needs to kill it. My guess is it will not be enforced. If you don’t want to have to worry about it, just do it and sleep well at night knowing that you took care of it. You never have to worry about it.

If you’re one of those proud Americans that wants to stick their thumb in the eye of the government and you’re like, screw you, I’m just going to not give you that information, I get you too. I understand it. And if that’s you, then just watch the channel for when it comes back, if it comes back. So FinCEN, no. Including new entities, correct.

They’re saying right now, you’re supposed to file it, but the treasury said no penalties or enforcement, and they’re going to send out new rules that limits it, but we don’t have those new rules. We will see and we’ll let you know when they do. But if it’s a small business, I may still be filing it.

Again, Anderson’s saying hey, you don’t have to, so don’t. Me as a normal human being, I’m like, meh. They already have this information. I don’t really care. But that’s me. You guys have different sensibilities too, so I’m not going to tell you what to do. I’ve done five videos on it where it’s on again, off again, on again, off again. They’ve given me whiplash. I’m through with it. So if it’s small, I don’t really care.

All right. “I am in the process of creating a trading partnership with a C-Corp,” we just talked about this. “Due to an accident 20 years ago, I have high medical expenses and want to use the C-Corp to reimburse my out-of-pocket medical expenses. I have caregivers who work three hours a day. Can I reimburse myself for the salary I pay them through the C-Corp? What other medical expenses can I reimburse?”

First off, I’m so sorry for your accident. I’m sorry that you’re having to incur those expenses. That said, what do you think?

Eliot: Absolutely. Yeah, you can reimburse those costs. There’s a lot you can reimburse through that. A lot of the premiums, the […] and things like that. As long as it’s with after-tax dollars that you paid, then yes you can get that reimbursed through the C-Corp.

Out-of-pocket medicals, again the premiums for various insurances and things like that, long-term care insurance, dental insurance, all of those individual health insurance premiums are all things that can be reimbursed through there.

I would say there’s more that you can reimburse in the medical expense area than what you can’t. But when it comes to not related to a significant illness or prevention thereof, that’s where we start to stray out and it becomes a little more questionable.

Toby: Yeah, you just hit it. Section 105 plan, and yes you can reimburse anything that mitigates disease, cures disease, and specifically caregiver expenses, including certain types of long-term care are covered if it’s for a medical reason.

If you have a caregiver because you have activities of daily living that you cannot take care of for yourself, then they would be covered. If you’re just hiring caregivers because you want to have your house cleaned and you want food, somebody to cook for you, it would not be covered.

When you say caregivers in an accident—I’m assuming this is because you’re having difficulty with the, I think there are seven activities of daily living and two out of seven, you’re into long-term care, things like that—that this is where we’re getting in that you need the caregiver because of the medical condition. If that’s the case, then it’s 100% reimbursable.

Now here’s the problem. We got to get enough money in there to cover it. If you have three hours a day, I’m thinking that’s at least $150 a day, depending on who your caregiver is and which service you’re using. But that could be pretty expensive. That’s like $45,000 a year. We just want to make sure that we have that income in there.

If we don’t, you may want to fund it and you create a loss. When you get up around $100,000 of loss, there is a thing you could do, which is to terminate the corporation and create the $100,000 loss. That’s married filing jointly, I believe. Otherwise it’s $50,000. If that’s the case, then you just take the loss and you can write that off against your other income.

So it really matters what your scenario is as far as income, as to whether you do those types of activities and whether that type of strategy works for you. Otherwise, hopefully you have enough money coming in there where you’re like, hey, I’m going to pay a guaranteed payment to the corporation of (let’s just say) $3000 a month to make sure it gets funded. Plus it’s going to get 20% of my profits and you’re making good money. And now that corporation is reimbursing you tax-free for those medical expenses.

Yes, we have other people doing that same thing. It does work, so it ends up being pretty, pretty powerful. It’s all about the money. So there you go. There’s a strategy from Eliot to make some money.

“I have a short-term rental managed by a management company. Before the end of the year, I’m taking over the management duties. Does the passive income switch to active or does the passive income stay passive?” What do you say?

Eliot: Well, I’m with Toby that we’re making some presumptions here, okay? It doesn’t necessarily mean that this was passive to begin with. Probably was if you paid someone to manage your company, and they’re putting more time directly to manage your short-term rental then you were, then it would be passive.

But it’s possible that you were really overseeing the management duties, even though there was an onsite manager. You put more time into them, you materially participate the test we talk about. it’s possible that it wasn’t passive, but most likely it was.

That all being said, if you take it over at the end of the year and you’re hands-on managing that thing towards the end of the year, it’s still going to come back to that material participation test. We’re going to need to count hours. Did you put more time in?

Toby: There are seven tests that you could qualify. So 500 hours between you and a spouse. And this is the issue. If it’s a short-term rental, is it seven days or less? Then it doesn’t get added with your investment properties.

There is a way to make it get added with your investment properties, but you’d have to lease it to a corporation that then is the host. I’m just assuming that this is just sitting here by itself. If that’s the case, it’s really going to be tough for you to hit the 500-hour test.

Then you drop down and say, what other test is available? I did substantially all the activity. That’s another test. You’re not going to hit that because somebody else is managing it most of the year. Then the other test that you might hit is you and a spouse do 100 hours a year managing this thing, and it’s more than any other individual.

I know some of you guys are going to immediately say, but there’s a management company that did it all year. We don’t care about the company. We care about the individuals who went onto your property and did any activities that would be considered substantial. Do they clean it and all that stuff?

If there’s no other individual, not company, individual, you could still qualify. But the big thing is, is this seven days or less on average? Because if it is, it’s not real estate. You’re a hotel, you’re an active trade or business. And then the question is just like Eliot and I start a pizza shop. Eliot works the pizza shop. He flips the pies. He does whatever with them makes the pizzas. I do nothing. Active trade or business. It’s a pizza shop. It’s a restaurant. He’s active, I’m passive.

So when we go to the short-term rental, is it seven days or less? All right, it’s a trade or business. It’s a pizza shop. Am I active or passive? Comes down to me, my activity, not anybody else’s. Eliot and I in a pizza shop, we could both be active. You could have management. They’re active, you’re active. See how that works? So it’s really facts and circumstances. I just threw a lot out at you guys. Hopefully you’re drinking it.

Eliot: It was good stuff.

Toby: I have checklists. I’m like, all right. Is this a trade or business? Yes. Okay. Do I meet one of the seven tests of management or of material participation? Yes. All right, then I don’t care about anybody else. For me, the loss is ordinary. And you, again, it depends on whether you have. I’m assuming loss here.

You may have income. You may want it to be passive because then you don’t have employment taxes. If I am short-term rental and I materially participate, that doesn’t mean it’s subject to employment taxes. You have to provide, what is it?

Eliot: Significant or substantial.

Toby: Yeah, substantial services. You have to be basically treated like a hotel in ancillary services, then you could be subject to the employment tax.

Guys, real quick. If you have an S-Corp or a partnership, your initial deadline for filing your return for 2024 is March 17th of this year. It’s this coming Monday, St. Patrick’s Day, so green tax forms for everybody. But if you’re not ready to file and Anderson does your return, we will file your extension for free.

So if you are out there and you’re an Anderson client, please reach out to us. I’m sure that there are emails going out saying, click here for an extension. Troy, can you confirm if that’s the case? Where they could just click on something and say, I want an extension. If you are not an Anderson client and you still want someone to file an extension for you, we still do it as a courtesy, but we charge you $75 if we don’t do the return. And we’ll know that when it comes time to do the return in September.

Simply, if that’s you and you want to have us do your extension, put it into chat, let Patty or everybody know, and if they don’t have the link, you can reach out to a tax coordinator. Just reach out to us. You could always just put down there in the chat too. Patty will round you up and make sure that she points you in the right direction.

But please, if you have an S-Corp or a partnership, your return date is coming up on Monday. So you got to do that extension. You get an automatic extension, buys you an extra six months of time, I think, gives you a little breathing room.

“When selling a rental property, do you have to pay 25% depreciation recapture tax on things that have been depreciated down to zero and have been gone or deleted for over a year?” Let’s just say your carpeting. There’s no value to it. I’ve had it for, I can’t imagine this, it’d be 27½ years .

Eliot: It’s a tough carpet.

Toby: It’s tough carpeting, but let’s just say something like that. It is pretty funny. Let’s go over it. Why don’t you just answer?

Eliot: I ain’t keeping any of my […].

Toby: Give them the rules so they understand. It’s not 25% depreciation recapture, first off.

Eliot: So the quick answer is no, because if you have something that’s depreciated all the way fully down, just about any reasonable tax preparer is going to go ahead and write that off, remove it. It’s not an asset on the schedule anymore as far as purposes of when you sell. Therefore you can go ahead and allocate that gain to any of the other assets, some of which would be just regular capital gains at that point.

But I think where you’re getting the 25% is from what we call 1250 property. That’s just your real estate property, and any depreciation recapture on that is capped at 25%. But that would not be the case here in what you’re asking about. You’re talking about things that have depreciated down to zero. We’re going to write those typically off.

Toby: If that’s only if you’re doing a cost seg.

Eliot: Yeah, another good point.

Toby: If you are just writing off a property, you’re recapturing it, period. Even if your accountant wrote it off. Hey, I tore my roof off and replaced it. Okay, so they did a partial disposition of the roof and wrote that off in the year that they did that, then you redepreciated the new roof. You’re recapturing that old roof at up to 25%. It’s whatever your income tax bracket is capped at 25%.

If you have lots of losses, you’re not making any taxable money, you might be in a situation where some of it’s at 12%, some of it’s 22%. You may not be getting hit at 25%. That might be okay. You might be like, yes.

If you’re breaking your property down and doing a cost segregation where we break the property into 5-year property, 7-year property, 15-year property, and those have been written off and you’re not selling them, so they’re gone, they’re deleted as you put it. Hey, I did a cost seg on a property and I had a fence. Fence is rotten. We’re tearing it down. They’re going to gut the house. The flooring, the window coverings and all that. We’ve depreciated them down to zero. You’re not required to recapture that at the 25%. It’s going to be part of your capital gains though. And if you 1031 exchange, you could avoid the whole thing in either of those situations.

I just want to make sure that we’re clear, again because my head is like a checklist. I always go and say, all right, rental property. Do I have to pay recapture? First off, you must recapture depreciation taken on any property for the structure. For the personal property, you would be writing that off over its useful life only if you did a cost seg study, only if you chose to treat it as 5-, 7-, and 15-year property. And then those ones, it’s facts and circumstances as to whether you’re selling that item, because otherwise it’d just be treated as ordinary income.

If I have brand new carpeting and somebody buys my place, then bought it, I’m keeping the carpeting. You’re going to pay tax at your ordinary rate on that, that you took that deduction for if you wrote it off in a previous year, for example. It’s a little bit of facts and circumstances again. It’s not super straightforward, but there is a method to the madness that you want follow, kind of check, check, check, check.

That’s why you talk to an accountant, guys. A lot of these guys and gals all have that little checklist where they’re like, okay here then this and this, and something that you think might be completely irrelevant. Well, I said it was 25%. Well, it’s not technically. If I can create a loss for you, your recapture is at zero. It’s maxed at 25%.

A lot of times people think they have a tax, and a good tax person might prevent it from actually being taxable. You didn’t realize that they could. Guys like Eliot have a little magic. Sprinkle some tax-free dust on some stuff,

Eliot: Works well.

Toby: I was watching Saturday Night Live. Every time I think about dust now, and it was two beers and a little bump. I don’t know if you guys saw that. Now I’m convinced in the afternoon, everybody here takes their prescription little bump. I do Diet Mountain Dew.

Eliot: I do Starbucks Corporate .

Toby: We all have our crutch. All right, “Can I apply both 1031 exchange or 1031 like-kind exchange and a 121 exclusion? It’s the capital gain exclusion on the sale of a personal residence to an investment property. Can I sell my investment home, apply 1031, and make the replacement home my primary residence?” Two very good questions. What’d you say?

Eliot: Okay, so is it possible 1031 and 121? Yes it’s possible, but we have to start with really at the end. Well, I guess you can go both ways, but at the end of the time when we’re selling it, it has to be in a trade or business. It must meet the 1031.

Toby: It has to be an investment property.

Eliot: Correct, it needs to be an investment property at that point, so that we can go ahead and do 1031. The 121 portion we will look back five years ago, was it a primary residency that you used two of the last five years and owned as your personal residence two of the last five years before you turned it into the investment property? That’s the trick to being able to use both of them.

It is possible, but we got to do it in order. We got to have it as a primary residency first, meet that standard two of the last five years as ownership and use as your primary residency, and then we turn it into investment property. How long? They don’t really tell us. Just long enough that it’s considered investment property, maybe a year or so. And then you could do the 1031 and take the 121.

As far as, now let’s say we’ve gotten through all that, we did the 1031, we got the replacement property. We have to use that also as an investment property. There’s a safe harbor of two years, so 24 months is actually what they say. If you use it as a rental for 24 months, then after that you could move into it and make it your primary residency.

Toby: Again, checklist. Ready? Can you do a 1031 exchange? If when you sell it, it’s an investment property, yes. Can you make an investment property into a primary residence? Yes, and it creates a different rule under 121. 121 says you have to have lived in a property as your primary residence two of the last five years. But if it was subject to a 1031 exchange, you can’t do it every two years. You can do it every five years. Ordinarily, a 121 exclusion could be taken every third year, so every two years, whatever that is. I guess it is. I always think of it as every third year.

Eliot: Well, because the third year is when you’re doing, it’ll be right.

Toby: So every two years you could take a 121 exclusion, which is the capital gain exclusion on a primary residence that you lived in two of the last five years. I live in a residence for (let’s just say) five years. Then I buy a new house and I move into it. The old one is no longer my primary residence and I rent it out. I could rent that out for up to three years. It’s coming up onto three years.

Two-and-a-half years, it’s an investment property that I could sell and I could 1031 exchange, but I also get my 121 exclusion. It’s going to step up the basis by the amount of that capital gain. I’m living this one right now. I have a house, I built it, has about $500,000 in gain. I moved out of it 2½ years.

My question is, do I sell it? I’ve been renting it out. Do I want to keep renting it out? But I could sell it and it’s right up at the top. It’s $500,000 capital gain exclusion. Okay, I could sell it and not pay any tax.

I could keep it as a rental, I could sell it to an S-Corp that I own, and step up the basis. I would do it as an installment sale, elect out of installment sale treatment, and I would grab my $500,000 exclusion. And now I stepped up my basis. Let’s just say I paid $350,000 and I sell it for $850,000. I’m now depreciating at $850,000, so I get a lot more bang for my buck.

Or I just say, you know what, Eliot? I don’t want it anymore. I 1031 it. Let’s say that I bought it for $250,000 and it’s worth $1 million. I have $750,000 in gain. I could 1031, but I still get my 121 exclusion. What would end up happening is I would 1031 have no tax, but my basis would go from $250,000, add the $500,000, now I’m at $750,000. Why does it matter? It might not if I die while I am owning that property, but if I ever sell it and don’t do a 1031 exchange, it just means that my basis is much higher and I won’t pay tax ever again on that.

Somebody says tax law seems like a dog chasing its tails sometimes. Yes. There are lots of little rules, which is why people get frustrated with it. Milton Friedman, just great economist, used to say, you got to do a flat tax. Why? Because you got to take away the incentive for rich people to use the tax code to their advantage. Because when the tax is too high, the incentive is too great to hire guys like us to lower it.

Well, right now taxes are pretty high. If they eliminate them, you don’t need guys like us anymore. They lower them and say, hey everybody, the top tax bracket’s 20%. We’re not doing anything. We’re going to be like, yeah, okay. Yeah, you can minimize a little bit.

But I’m not crying about that. What I’m crying about is, a client who is in California who’s at the 37% federal level and at 13.5% state, they’re paying over 50% of every dollar that they make. They’re like, you got to be kidding me. They make interest on a savings account and they make 5% interest. They’re like, great. Because you don’t get to keep the 5%. You really make it 2.5% or 2.4%, and the government’s making more than you are. That’s when people say, what do I have to do to knock that off? What do I have to do?

Eliot: Go to Hawaii.

Toby: Yeah, go to Hawaii. Let’s go to Hawaii. We should go to Italy.

Eliot: That’s cool too.

Toby: Where should we go? Let’s go to Florence. We’ll go and sit in the Tuscan sun.

Speaking of the Tuscan sun, there’s my partner. It looks like he’s been out in it too long. Hey, come and visit us one of these weekends, do a tax and asset protection event. Very easily. They’re free. Come on in and join us.

The live tax and asset protection events for you guys, because you’re watching Tax Tuesday, the next one’s coming up on March 27th, 28th and 29th. And there’s actually a day where you, if you’re a client you’ll get an invitation to that one too, which is a networking day. But for the tax and AP, three days live, $99. How about them apples?

And if you guys like this type of information, but you’re realizing I need to talk to an accountant, schedule a free strategy session. You’re on Tax Tuesday. We love you guys because you’re willing to spend the time to educate yourself. You’re not like a lot of the clients you just call up and say, here’s my stuff. You’re actually saying, okay, what are the strategies? How do I use it? And it could put thousands of dollars a year back in your pocket that you would’ve lost otherwise.

We appreciate your time and we’ll reward it by saying free strategy sessions. So sit down, let’s do a blueprint of what your business looks like. Your investments look like, your estate looks like. Let’s put pen to paper on a blueprint. It’ll be courtesy. That’s what we do.

We build a blueprint for your, we say real estate investing business. Not everybody here is a real estate investor. We’ll just do it for your business. All you got to do is reach out, and I think there’s a QR code. Yay, QR codes.

All right, more questions we have to answer. “When selling my primary residence, do seller concession expenses help stay within the $250,000 capital gain exclusion? Example, help buyer with closing costs, any repairs, et cetera.” What do you think?

Eliot: Well, they are a deduction. Typically you can use those as deductions. In that sense, you’re going to have some savings, but they’re not directly to the $250,000 exclusion.

Toby: You get to just write off expenses, period. They’re not part of your capital gain.

Eliot: Exactly. In that $250,000 is when you’re filing single $500,000 married filing joint. That’s the 121 exclusion we’ve been talking about in the previous questions. So yeah, it’s a deduction, typically but it doesn’t really have anything to do with the $250,000 directly.

Toby: Hey Patty, can you reach out to Donna? I want to make sure that you hand pick them. I can see, and there are a bunch of people asking, so how can I make an appointment? We’ll give you a link so you can get it. Here, I’ll go back to this. Sorry guys. Here’s a free strategy.

Just use your phone, grab it, or we’ll send you a link. Either way we will make sure that we take care of you guys. So grab that one. And if you’re not just go into chat and say, could I get the link free? We just like to help people do the blueprints. And yeah, it helps us. If we could save you a bunch of money, we usually say like, hey, you could do it this way.

It’s about value. It’s not about price. I always say like, if I can get $7000 to $1000. I’ll pay an accountant $1000 if it saves me $7000. I’d pay him $10,000 if it saves me $70,000. I’d pay him $100,000 if it saves me $700,000 or $70,000 or whatever, $70,000. I would absolutely. I always look at it as, is the juice worth the squeeze? Everybody’s different. But it’s just a good idea to know what your options are.

All right, let’s move on. “I have spent over $3000 on different online real estate education programs. Can I deduct these as business expenses or are only education expenses that are not online deductible?” I just love how they, loaded question.

Eliot: So generally speaking, one can deduct. There are a lot of little rules to this. But if you’re learning about a new trade or business, so let’s just say you’re just starting that’s why you’re taking these classes, generally speaking you can’t deduct your education. We need to do it through a C-Corporation. We set one of those up and we can deduct it there. We have some methods to be able to put it over there.

It’s not going to go against your 1040, your individual return, but it will go on the C-Corporation return, so we have something there. But now what if it’s Toby’s pizza shop again, and after year three he finally decides to take some cooking classes and learn how to cook the pizza or something like that? Now it’s just continuing education in a sense that he’d be able to deduct it there against his business, so. we’re good there. And the fact that if it’s online or not online, irrelevant. Doesn’t matter.

Toby: Yeah. What it is, is if an education is going to train you for a new skill, new trade or business, it is not deductible. It is generally going to be considered your personal education. If I go to school to get an MBA, not deductible to me. Now if it furthers your skill in a business, deductible. And you’re like, what the heck does that mean, Toby?

All right, so I went to Seattle University. While I was sitting there, all around me during in the business courses were these folks from Boeing (the airplane company). They were sending their people to learn management skills and business skills. A lot of their engineers. So here they are sitting around. Boeing is paying for their education and it’s deductible. Me, no, because I’m not in a trade or business.

Let’s go back to your example. You’re flipping houses and you take a real estate education course. You can write it off. You take an education course, and then you flip a house. You can’t. You could grab it as a startup expense if you set up the right type of business. But when you incurred that expense, you weren’t a trade or business. And that’s why Eliot immediately went to the C-Corp.

Just by having a corporation and a C-Corp in particular, it is a trade or business. You want to write things off? Get it into the C-Corp. If you are an existing business, you’re already, again, I’m in the pizza shop and then I want to take some education courses, now I’m improving my skill. I don’t have to worry about it. But if I am not in a trade or business, I cannot write off my education.

If I am an investor, I cannot write off my education. I have to be the level of a trade or business, period. Sounds weird, but that’s the rule. Now, you could set it up and you could reimburse yourself expenses up to $5000 immediate expense, for startup expenses that would’ve been deductible had you been a trade or business.

There are all these little nuances. Hope I didn’t confuse you guys. But that’s why—I hate to say this—you got to work with somebody who knows what the rules are, but now you know. So you just sit there and say, oh, I’m sending my kid to college. Can I write it off? No. My kid is working in my business and they take some classes that help my business. Yes, you could reimburse those.

Eliot: A lot of your accounting classes, things like that, if your child is helping with the bookkeeping, or social media for advertising, any marketing classes they take, then all of a sudden you might have a deduction there.

Toby: And we do that. We used to send everybody to do the EA exam. I think we probably still do. Do you want to learn to be an enrolled agent? Fantastic. We’ll help. We can write it off.

Now, graduate high school, college or whatever, and you say I want to be an EA, you don’t have a job, you’re not working for a trade or a business, you can’t write it off. Silly. Same class. Eliot and I are sitting in the same class. I have a business, he doesn’t. He can’t write his off, I can. Doesn’t seem right, but that’s the rules. We don’t cry about it. We just take advantage of them.

“I attend a lot of investor’s meetings in person. I travel with my personal not business automobile.” You must have a business automobile too. “How can I deduct these costs as business expenses?”

Eliot: Assuming that we have a business, a trade or business that we’re traveling to these events and things like that, then you very well might be able to deduct the cost of travel. There are a lot of intricacies there, at least the mileage, but also hotel stays and things of that nature. But we do have to have a trade or business.

If it’s just your personal investing expenses like Toby talked about earlier, we can’t typically deduct expenses related to that, because they took that area away when they removed the 2% rule for our scheduling Items. Assuming you have a trade or business, maybe you set up an Anderson trading partnership and that’s why we’re going to these meetings, then all of a sudden, yeah we can typically deduct those.

Toby: With a corporation.

Eliot: Yes, with a corporation.

Toby: When he says Anderson, we’re talking about we use two entities, LLC or an LP taxed as a partnership, corporation as the manager, and it could be an LLC taxed as a corporation, C-Corp.

Eliot: And then yes, we’ll be able to do those deductions with that C-Corp being in there.

Toby: There are so many good Q&A. I keep looking at them.

Eliot: How many have they answered, 390?

Toby: Yeah, there are a lot of them that they answer.

Eliot: Oh, that’s the attendees. I’m sorry.

Toby: They have answered 132. But they’re answering a lot. But I like the question, “Can you explain a poor man’s 1031 exchange?”

Eliot: Oh, nice.

Toby: Yeah. You’re creating a passive loss to offset your passive capital gains from the sale of a property. You sell a property, oh shoot, I have all these capital gains. You go create loss on a passive property. Your accountant’s going to say, oh, no, no, no, that’s different. That’s passive loss. Passive losses offset passive income. Capital gains on a passive activity is passive, so you can offset it. That’s a poor man’s 1031.

Eliot: Good reason to do maybe a cost seg on another property.

Toby: Somebody says no, Toby does not. Guys are bad out there. All right, “How do I save on taxes when wholesaling properties?”

Eliot: Do it in a business. Set up a corporation. SRC is typically where we do wholesaling. It’s going to be active income, but if we do it in there, yeah, you’ve picked up the extra cost of another return and the cost of sending up the entity.

But we got a lot of deductions. We can do a lot of reimbursements in the SRC Corporation. Corporate meetings, accountable plan, reimbursements for administrative office at your house. If it’s a C-Corporation, we talked a little while ago about medical reimbursement. There you can maximize some deductions and get money back to the tax-free, and and have the asset protection at the same time.

Toby: I’m going to give you guys the cheat code. If you ever have a business like wholesaling, wholesaling you’re not getting paid capital gains. You’re getting paid ordinary income. You’re getting paid to find a property, put it under contract, sell it, or you’re getting an assignment fee. It’s ordinary income no matter what. It could be taxed at your ordinary bracket.

But you also worked for it. You can contribute it to a retirement plan. There are retirement plans that you could put upwards of $200,000, $300,000, $400,000 a year into tax-deferred. You got to have that business set up. It’s called a defined benefit plan.

If I am a wholesaler, I want to save money, and pay the least amount of tax possible, I’m likely setting it up as an S-Corp or an LLC taxed as an S-Corp with a defined benefit plan in 401(k). And I’m accepting that I’m going to place some employment tax—the old age, disability, survivors, and Medicare. People call it FICA, whatever you want to call it, the employment taxes. I’m going to accept that I’m going to pay some of that.

But if I could put $500,000 into retirement plan, and not pay any federal income tax and state income tax on it, I’m going to do that all day long.

Eliot: Hard to beat that.

Toby: Yeah. You do that for a few years, you’re going to be shocked at how much that it just keeps compounding and compounding. Then you’re always going to have somebody who says, but our tax is going up or down. […] are going up $36 trillion in that. Taxes are definitely going up.

I get you, you’re going to have required minimum distributions at some time, but I’m willing to risk that. And it’s not like they’re going to do it just one day. If you want to convert it to a Roth, go for it. If all of a sudden you hear Congress saying, we need a 90% income tax bracket, convert it today. Hey, this is the enemy I know, 37% is my highest tax. Now I’ll never pay tax again on it.

But I don’t see that happening. I think that statistically, your overall tax bracket drops considerably when you retire. Then you’re required to take minimum distributions out. You’re not going to be crying if you got $6 million sitting in your retirement plan and it’s paying out required minimum distributions, $200,000-some a year. You’re going to be just fine. You’ll be below 20% aggregate tax. Trust me.

Eliot: Problems people want.

Toby: Yeah. Wholesaling, that’s one of the more interesting areas where you can jam that into a retirement plan. You could do all the others. Hey, I get to write everything off under the sun. That’s fantastic. I’m going to buy a new Range Rover every year. Okay, I get you.

And by the way when you sell it, you have to recapture. Nobody ever does that stuff. They always say just buy another big car. Then they never tell you if you use it less than 50% business, it’s all taxable too the following year anyway. A lot of accountants that just spew crap.

But let’s just say you do everything you can to minimize it. You’re do real estate professional, you’re doing all these things, you’re doing everything right. At the end of the day, when you have active income, get that into a retirement plan and let it grow, 20 years in a little incubating oven. Let it just […]. The wholesaling properties, that’s how you get it in there.

Let’s just say it’s me and Eliot are wholesaling. We’re making $50,000 a year. We’re working our tail off. Whole thing. He puts $25,000 in, I put $25,000 in. No tax. You have the employment tax, but it’s pretty small. I’m okay with that. I get it into a tax deferred zone.

I get $50,000 that’s going to double statistically if it’s in the S&P, not the last few days, no. If it’s statistically in the S&P, it’s going to double every seven years. It’s $50,000, now it’s $100,000, now it’s $200,000, now it’s $400,000, now it’s $800,000. I’m time to retire and I got a big chunk of money. You do that over and over again every year, you’re going to have a pile of money waiting for you.

Just be patient, let it invest, put it into things, go to infinity investing. We’ll teach you what to do with it. There’s a life hack. It’s just put it into something like an FEG or DIVO. Just put it on auto, lose your password for 20 years and you’re going to be a millionaire. Just do things like that.

Guys, if you like this information. yes, we’re a little bit goofy, especially Eliot. We try to have fun with taxes. Are you guys okay if we have some fun with taxes? Give me a thumbs up if it’s okay if taxes don’t need to be boring and horrible. There’s one thumb. There we go, a few. All right. I was getting a little worried about you guys out there. It’s time to get the wine out.

Eliot: Here comes the faithful.

Toby: It’s time to get the line. Hey Patty, if you can. Hey guys, sign up on my YouTube. You’re going to see a bunch of different videos. I give away my Infinity Investing book. I wrote a book that got a gold medal at one of the book awards and was a bestseller on Amazon. We give it to you, the electronic version, absolutely free. But it’s on a bunch of these things.

She might have a link, but if you want to learn that stuff, I’ll teach it all day long. Our clients that are successful, do specific things over and over again. We do about 10,000 tax returns a year here, so we get to see who makes money. We know what you’re doing. It’s not magic. It’s just consistent discipline, and we’ll teach it to you.

You join my YouTube channel if you want. I give it on a bunch of those. I’m trying to think of probably the net worth has one. You just type in free book. Patty may have the link. I don’t know if you had the link Patty, but you could share that. But go to the YouTube channel, sign up, and you’ll definitely get it. Patty’s going to grab it and she’ll share it out before the end of the event.

And then go to my partner’s. Clint and I have been partners since 1998. Really smart guy, grew up in real estate, does a really good job explaining asset protection. Very, very competent, good person, knowing how to do these things.

His channel is way more on real estate asset protection. I tend to be more tax and financial stuff. Just because we’re yin and yang, and when together we do okay, making sure that we’re covering the bases in our firm. We’ve got so many great attorneys and accountants, so many CPAs and EAs.

I should point out that they’ve been answering all your questions, looks like over 150 written answers just during this. Between Troy, Tanya, Marie, Jen, Jeff, Jared. Oh, we got a bunch more. Dutch, Arash, and Patty. These are CPAs and accountants answering your questions absolutely free guys.

If you know anybody that’s a business, get them onto these Tax Tuesdays. It’s always fun, and you guys can start talking tax. Once you start doing that, your life will never be the same. Once you start thinking about tax and assets and pretend like, okay, how can I get an extra benefit? You start using that word how, which everybody’s like, well, what does that mean?

It means how do I avoid the tax when I sell this property? How do I minimize my tax burden if I’m doing A, B, C? How do I keep more of what I’m making if I’m doing this type of business? Those are great conversations, and if you’re just bouncing it around the people that you know, they’re going to see and remember stuff, and it could save you thousands of dollars.

I had one case where somebody came in and they were just like, I know I can’t do this. They gave me a scenario and I said, well, you could do this. It was $183,000 of tax savings and it took all of about 5 minutes. Either you know it or you don’t.

This is just going to help you know it, and you can help your friends, but invite them on as well. Invite them to come and visit the free events. We do the tax and asset protection workshops. And of course, for the third time, I’m going to hit you again, come to our live events. We do them four times a year and they’re a lot of fun.

And if that’s not your gig and you just say, I just want to talk to somebody like Eliot who’s smart, who might be able to save me some money, just schedule a free strategy session.

Eliot: I’ll do that with Troy, Someone smart.

Toby: Somebody’s smart to Troy. We get you Tanya, get you Murray. No, somebody will sit down and go over. Believe it or not, that’s free to see whether we can save you some money and point you in the right direction without minimizing it, making sure also that you’re looking at your estate plan.

A lot of times we talk about the business planning and the tax and all that sexy. At the end of the day, it’s all for naught if you don’t have a loving, caring estate plan that says here’s what happens. You don’t want to lose it just because of that oversight.

All right, if you have questions in the next two weeks, email them. Eliot here takes a look at them. And we got to say, Eliot, good job.

Eliot: Thank you. It’s all you guys.

Toby: Eliot picks the questions that then we answer live. If you email it in, he’s going to respond no matter what. But he always picks the usually 10 crazy questions that then we answer live, but we’ll make sure that we get your question answered no matter what. And we’ll see you there.

Somebody says, we’ll see you at the Dallas workshop. I love that. We’ll see. It’s usually 300 or 400 people there and a bunch of investors. That’s where the value is, is hanging out with people that think like us, and things like you who are trying to make their lives better, looking at real estate investing, stock investing and different things, and it’s just a different vibe as a result.

All right guys, thank you so much. Thank you to everybody. For Arash, Dutch, Jared, Jeff, Jen, Marie, Tanya, Troy, Patty, and the tech team. Thank you guys. It was a really good group. Thank you guys for coming in and joining us, and we’ll see you again for Tax Tuesday in two weeks.